You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of!    

Firearm & Gun Forum - > Gear & Accessories > Other Weapons >

Think you DON'T need a GOOD KNIFE??

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-12-2009, 03:15 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3518 Times on 1623 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default Think you DON'T need a GOOD KNIFE??

Executive Summary

In May 2004, approximately 20 British troops in Basra were ambushed and forced out of their vehicles by about 100 Shiite militia fighters.

When ammunition ran low, the British troops fixed bayonets and charged the enemy. About 20 militiamen were killed in the assault without any
British deaths.

The bayonet charge appeared to succeed for three main reasons:

First, the attack was the first of its kind in that region and captured the element of surprise.

Second, enemy fighters probably believed jihadist propaganda stating that coalition troops were cowards unwilling to fight in close combat, further enhancing the element of surprise.

Third, the strict discipline of the British troops overwhelmed the ability of the militia fighters to organize a cohesive counteraction.

The effects of this tactical action in Basra are not immediately applicable elsewhere, but an important dominant theme emerges regarding the need to avoid predictable patterns of behavior within restrictive rules of engagement.

Commanders should keep adversaries off balance with creative feints and occasional shows of force lest they surrender the initiative to the enemy.

I. Overview of Bayonet Charge
On 21 May 2004, Mahdi militiamen engaged a convoy consisting of approximately 20 British troops from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 55 miles north of Basra.

A squad from the Princess of Wales regiment came to their assistance. What started as an attack on a passingconvoy ended with at least 35 militiamen dead and just three British troops wounded.

The militiamen engaged a force that had restrictive rules of engagement prior to the incident that prevented them from returning fire. What ensued was an example of irregular warfare by coalition troops that achieved a tactical victory over a numerically superior foe with considerable

I have the full "Spirit of the Bayonet" Un-Official Release ( Leaked ) from the Urban Warfare Analysis Center if anyone is interested in reading the whole experience and what the Analysis Center had to say. It's about 8 .pdf pages, but it's a good read.

Let me know if interested...


Dillinger is offline  
Reply With Quote

Join Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join Today! - Click Here

Old 03-12-2009, 03:47 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
CA357's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,871
Liked 1179 Times on 514 Posts
Likes Given: 2978


Thanks for posting this. It clearly illustrates how restrictive rules of engagement have hamstrung troops. (ours and coalition)

I have a number of well made and useful knives. They vary in size and purpose, but all are excellent quality.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”Samuel Adams
CA357 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 01:22 AM   #3
Posts: n/a

The RULES OF ENGAGEMENT changes when the Tomahawk is un-sheathed....Can you say BLOODBATH ?
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 02:30 AM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: everywhere
Posts: 9,639
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts


Couple of thoughts, invite discussion.

1) When I got to my first duty assignment, first thing I bought was a knife. The next day, there was a battalion barracks search for knives. "Rambo" style knives were confiscated, and we were told that knives with saw serrations on the back violated the Geneva Convention, since they could cut bone. Sounded like hooey to me.

2) Bayonets tend to be dull, since a cut with a sharp knife tends to heal better, and a dull one "tears", making a jagged, nasty wound.

3) Best knife I had while I was in was essentially a modified bayonet that I had some custom work done on. Indestructible. When I left, gave it to my buddy. What an idiotic move, as I've yet to find this knife's match.

4) For me, at least, the bayonet course was the roughest and scariest part of boot camp. As close as you can come to true barbarism in training. God, I miss it.
Benning Boy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 02:17 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Stafford, Virginia,The state of insanity.
Posts: 14,043
Liked 52 Times on 42 Posts


I remember when I showed up to formation with a 7" Gerber double edge knife hanging off my LBE my squad leader about SHP when he asked me what that was and I unsheathed it and the blade edge was gleaming in the moonlight. That sucker was so sharp you could shave with it. That knife helped save the lives of three men in a very bad military truck accident that happend to my unit at NTC.

cpttango30 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Favorite Knife TacticalMan Other Weapons 61 04-17-2013 11:40 PM
Hey anyone want a knife? TRIGGER Other Weapons 9 01-01-2012 06:44 AM
Knife carry AdAstra2009 Other Weapons 3 05-22-2009 01:21 PM
knife ccw shnorse Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 14 10-03-2008 01:54 AM