Modern non-lethal weapons and their use in actual combat?
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:07 PM   #1
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Default Modern non-lethal weapons and their use in actual combat?

Ok, tasers and pepper sprays have been for a while with us. Isn't there a actual use for them in actual warfare? Soldiers are well trained in close-quarters-combat with knives. Law enforcement officers are trained in the use of batons.

Despite the fact tasers require a while for knockin' out a person. The spray may cause instant disablin', but it needs to be an accurated shot.

In past times, and without TV, many people around the world designed special ways to fight usin' a weapon or two. Isn't it time to develop newer techniques of self defense and combat usin' this neew weapons?

I understand in the case of chemical sprays now that the Geneva Convention banned their use in actual warfare. Just imagine the mayhem that would be clouds of pepper or tear ga over enemy positions.

I don't know, I haven't been hit with a taser yet. So I unknow the effect of high electrical charges in the body. But if there's a science behind the weapon, there should be another science behind the handlin'.

Does anyone have any idea of an effective way to use this kind of weapons?

*Note: Please stop watchin' kung-fu movies, kids.

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Old 02-16-2010, 03:20 PM   #2
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Ive never been hit by a stungun before. But I would imagine it isn't pleseant.

Now years ago I got to go to the SOTG's lessthan lethal training package. Part of that was recieving a level I spray then running the gauntlet. It wasn't too bad. Yeah it hurt, but if you are able to keep your wits about you, you can deal with it.

Fastforward. I got deployed to Haiti in 04 after the coup. I got put on the security detail at the palace. There were a lot of protesters there for the first few weeks because they thought we were there to put the idiot they just ousted back into power. There were several times when we used fin stabilized batons from the mossys, but the results were always the same. The guy that got hit would be pulled back before we could bring him in and check him out, and someone would take his place.

One time there was a very large group that started to get violent and we hit them with the MK-46 (OC spray that comes in a canister the size of a fire extinguisher). From that point on, if they even saw you reach for a black canister with a red label, the crowd would vanish.

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Old 02-16-2010, 04:32 PM   #3
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So, the lack of a non-lethal weaponry tencnique is due to the actual lack of need for expertise because the weapon itself is psychologically effective from the beginnin'?

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Old 02-17-2010, 02:18 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by MakarovJAC View Post
Ok, tasers and pepper sprays have been for a while with us. Isn't there a actual use for them in actual warfare? Soldiers are well trained in close-quarters-combat with knives. Law enforcement officers are trained in the use of batons.

Despite the fact tasers require a while for knockin' out a person. The spray may cause instant disablin', but it needs to be an accurated shot.

In past times, and without TV, many people around the world designed special ways to fight usin' a weapon or two. Isn't it time to develop newer techniques of self defense and combat usin' this neew weapons?

I understand in the case of chemical sprays now that the Geneva Convention banned their use in actual warfare. Just imagine the mayhem that would be clouds of pepper or tear ga over enemy positions.

I don't know, I haven't been hit with a taser yet. So I unknow the effect of high electrical charges in the body. But if there's a science behind the weapon, there should be another science behind the handlin'.

Does anyone have any idea of an effective way to use this kind of weapons?

*Note: Please stop watchin' kung-fu movies, kids.
I could be wrong but I believe that all non-lethal weapons are subject to the principles of international law and their use in combat situations may be considered criminal if certain humanitarian standards are not met. Ironically their use against civilians is subject to a less stringent standard.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:15 AM   #5
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Shooting a combatant with 500 rubber bullets is cruel and shooting them with a TANK isn't. No suffering.

Any more there are some serious restrictions on what you can and can't do in combat.

While in the army I was told I could only shoot at "Equipment" with my Ma Duce and Mk 19. Ok To me a helmet is Equipment and it is too bad I blew a hole in his chest the size of a prius I missed his helmet.

The goal of war is not to make the enemy wither around on the ground from mace. It is to remove him from combat via quick accurate and high volumes of fire.

This is not the hardcore streets of the burbs with teenage Emo's running wild. This is combat people are trying to kill me so I need to kill them first. My theory was I needed to have the bigest baddest weapon in the arms room why? Well I wanted to be able to put the most rounds down range in the least amount of time and cause the most damage. If I cold have I would have mounted a quad 50 cal mount on my HMMWV. If you would have given me a tazer and told me to go clear a house with guys in it that had AK-47. There is one thing that is going to happen. I am going to taze your ass till you piss yourself then take your weapon and go clear the house and kill anyone who is trying to kill me.

The police are doing a different job than Military. There is a reason why a tank shoots 105mm rounds and not pepper spray. There is a reason why our ground troops carry M-16 and real ammo using real bullets. Your not there to lay patty cake your there to kick ass take names and kill people then blow things up.
Oh and it is USING no using.

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Old 02-18-2010, 03:50 AM   #6
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Shooting a combatant with 500 rubber bullets is cruel and shooting them with a TANK isn't. No suffering.

Any more there are some serious restrictions on what you can and can't do in combat.

While in the army I was told I could only shoot at "Equipment" with my Ma Duce and Mk 19. Ok To me a helmet is Equipment and it is too bad I blew a hole in his chest the size of a prius I missed his helmet.

The goal of war is not to make the enemy wither around on the ground from mace. It is to remove him from combat via quick accurate and high volumes of fire.

This is not the hardcore streets of the burbs with teenage Emo's running wild. This is combat people are trying to kill me so I need to kill them first. My theory was I needed to have the bigest baddest weapon in the arms room why? Well I wanted to be able to put the most rounds down range in the least amount of time and cause the most damage. If I cold have I would have mounted a quad 50 cal mount on my HMMWV. If you would have given me a tazer and told me to go clear a house with guys in it that had AK-47. There is one thing that is going to happen. I am going to taze your ass till you piss yourself then take your weapon and go clear the house and kill anyone who is trying to kill me.

The police are doing a different job than Military. There is a reason why a tank shoots 105mm rounds and not pepper spray. There is a reason why our ground troops carry M-16 and real ammo using real bullets. Your not there to lay patty cake your there to kick ass take names and kill people then blow things up.
Oh and it is USING no using.
Couldn't said it any better my self
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #7
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I understand in the case of chemical sprays now that the Geneva Convention banned their use in actual warfare. Just imagine the mayhem that would be clouds of pepper or tear ga over enemy positions.
Incorrect. The Geneva Conventions does no such thing. It deals with the treatment of militay and civilian persons. Not weapons. The Hague conventions deals with weapons, and the U.S. never signed onto it because at the time of its writing we were not considered a major power, so we chose not to sign it because we had no say in what was written.

Riot control agents do not meet the definition in the U.S. to be classified as chemical munitions.

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While in the army I was told I could only shoot at "Equipment" with my Ma Duce and Mk 19. Ok To me a helmet is Equipment and it is too bad I blew a hole in his chest the size of a prius I missed his helmet.
Yeah I think we were all told that at one time or another. It is false, a rumor started because someone said it was against the Geneva Conventions. It comes from the Declaration of St. Petersburg (something else that we are not signatory to).

"The Great Powers agreed to renounce, in case of war among themselves, the use of any explosive projectile of less weight than 400 grams (14 ounces avoirdupois) or one charged with fulminating or inflammable substances.

"

So it was really a failed understanding by someone somewhere.
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:21 PM   #8
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One less than lethal device that I came across while in Afghanistan was the FN 303 that shoots quite the assortment of projectiles. They also make a similar one that can be mounted on an M16 like a M203 would be.
We used these at every guard tower around the perimeter of the base I was on. Of course, ROE still apply and it was a real PITA to get permission to fire. I can see where this weapon may have it's uses, but it really is just another way for the higher-ups to micromanage a soldier's actions in a dangerous environment.

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Old 02-23-2010, 03:20 PM   #9
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One less than lethal device that I came across while in Afghanistan was the FN 303 that shoots quite the assortment of projectiles. They also make a similar one that can be mounted on an M16 like a M203 would be.
We used these at every guard tower around the perimeter of the base I was on. Of course, ROE still apply and it was a real PITA to get permission to fire. I can see where this weapon may have it's uses, but it really is just another way for the higher-ups to micromanage a soldier's actions in a dangerous environment.
That would really piss me off to have some candy-ass fatboy sitting in his comfy chair delegating what I can & can't do WHILE I'M BUSY DODGING BULLETS...

It's much easier to apologize for what you did... than it is to get permission to do what you need to do...
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:59 PM   #10
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I'm sorry .. What part of WAR don't you understand? I'm not trying to be nice, I'm not trying to be understanding, I don't give a rat's A** about the MF I'm trying to kill and I'm sure he doesn’t give a sh*t about me. IT'S WAR, I want to inflict the most damage I can on the body of the enemy soldiers so they won’t be able to come back and try to do the same to me. This touchy feely sh*t really pisses me off and it’s this type of thinking that has cost many a soldier his or her life. This is the thinking of a politician, academia, and someone who enjoys the fruits of freedom purchased by the sacrifice of US soldiers lives. In the words of a very famous soldier “No war has ever been won by giving your life for your country, war is won by making the other poor son of a bit*h give his life for his country”. Less lethal belongs in the Law Enforcement world.. not War.

Sorry, but this thread just pisses me off and I held back as long as I could.. rant over.

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