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Old 03-18-2009, 01:08 AM   #21
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^ That is an awesome description of what you guys go through - thanks for stopping by Robo and peeling back some of the BS layers that are media induced.

JD

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Old 03-18-2009, 02:13 AM   #22
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The guy in Oakland that died was a bad actor. I personally know an officer that arrested this individual twice at that very same BART station for the same offense. Did this individual deserve to die? No. But he needs to be responsible for being the sole individual that put himself in that position.

If you watch the video, you can see two things. First of all, the perp is non-compliant and combative. Secondly, you can see the horror on the officers face after he shot the individual and realized his "MISTAKE".

JD hit the nail on the head when he eluded to training or lack of being the culprit here.

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Old 03-18-2009, 03:08 AM   #23
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ROBO I knew there was a reason I liked you.

I would be honored to be pulled over by you.

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Old 03-18-2009, 01:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
As an instructor in Firearms, Tasers, Batons, Pepper spray and a variety of physical restraint techniques, I have been tased (4X), Pepper sprayed dozens of times, whacked, beaten and choked out. The TASER is safe and effective. It has never been proven that a TASER killed anyone, EVER!
CBC News In Depth: Tasers

Amnesty International disagrees with you.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #25
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I guess i shouldn't be surprised at the opinions in this thread. I guess the modern LEO can't do his/her job without this device in the same manner as the modern LEO needs a bit more than the nightstick the old English "bobbies" carried.

I think the root of the problem is not so much the taser but the "dangerous until proven compliant as a lamb" attitude in many public visages of law enforcement. You don't usually see the officer who takes the extra time to talk down some PERSON (that's the other thing a suspect is) who is freaking out a bit; you see the exciting footage of the officer tazing that person or wrestling them to the ground. You don't see the footage of the polite public servant issuing and explaining a citation to a PERSON driving a bit too fast; you see a high speed pursuit ending with a pit maneuver. Most people react very compliantly to "dog logic"/barked orders & in-their-face offensive behavior, they back down & follow those instructions; however, some people react in the opposite fashion to barked orders & "dog logic" or aggresive posturing, they give it back. This is how problems start.

Maybe LEO training should teach officers to be polite until the PERSON they are dealing with gives them a reason to break out the dog logic or the taser. Otherwise, the current & growing cycle of stronger reactions to unnecessary posturing will continue to grow, in my opinion. I've never had a problem with a LEO writing me a traffic citation or detaining me for questioning or even arresting me for smoking a blunt in a freakin canoe, when they approached the situation in a calm & reasonably polite manner. However, if an officer approaches me with barking orders & aggressive posturing, my response will be an immediate evaluation of escape routes, including the one through the officer; i think if people were to be honest, some of you reading this post would have to admit the same probable response. Some people react this way due to years of informal "training" in abusive homes or relationships, others through some over-active hard-wired survival instinct or anxiety-related disorder.

I think it is indeed the officer training that needs serious re-evaluation; with proper people skills, they won't need the tasers as often & won't be criticized when they do need to use them.

I was picked up for armed robbery a few months after the Rodney King arrest/beating. The five officers involved handled the situation very well & maintained their safety by drawing their weapons & asking me to assume a prone position. They took the extra few seconds to inform me that they were investigating an armed robbery (i knew i didn't do that). They had the sense to be polite but firm in their communications incident to their search, even after finding a rather large knife on my belt. Throughout the entire incident they were very professional & polite; it went very smoothly for all of us. The guy at the store was able to determine that i wasn't the robber & the officers returned my knife & me to my house (300 yards from the store). Had they been belligerent order-barking jackasses, i probably would've bolted in the other direction through an open field next to a interstate highway. It is very possible they could have had to chase me or to shoot me or shoot at me at that point (i was dressed exactly like the robber). Luckily for all of us, they were smart LEO's with good people skills & training; a taser won't substitute for some intelligence, training, & people skills (imagine the headlines, college student shot in mistaken ID police error ).

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Old 03-18-2009, 02:53 PM   #26
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Amnesty International? I suspect that they would find information to back up why chewing gum should be outlawed, if that was the cause of the week.

I have never been Tazed, however I've been pepper sprayed dozens of times and tossed around/ choked/ twisted up. Despite what you or anyone else thinks, the P-O-L-I-C-E don't use tazers because it's fun to zap someone. In a physical confrontation, there is no magical ninja stun that puts an end to the situation, but a Tazer does. Like it or not, a fight is a fight and when it's on it's on, whether I am wearing a badge or not. For liability sake, you would never put in a report that you had to "fiight" with a suspect.

So, with that in mind, say suspect #1 and the po-po are in a standoff off sorts, with the suspect refusing to do whatever he/ she is supposed to do. Is it better for the cop to go hands on and "test the waters"? See how tough this dude really is? Is it better to get kneed in the stomach and driven to the ground? Sprayed with crap that will make you wanna scratch your eyes out and spend the next 40 minutes with snot spewing outta your nose and mouth? Get smacked with, what in reality is nothing more than a steel pipe?

Tazers have never caused ANYONE to die, I don't care what Amnesty International says. There are ALWAYS underlying conditions that result in a fatality, not just the Tazer alone. Get a hold of the use of force reports from any decent size PD that does not use Tazers and you'll see how many suspects are taken the hospital. How many officers are taken to the hospital. How many broken bones, noses and heads there have been.

Compare those reports to a similar agency that does use Tazers. I can GUARANTEE you will see a huge decrease in both officer and suspect injuries. There is a reason these things are in use.

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Old 03-18-2009, 03:48 PM   #27
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Amnesty International? I suspect that they would find information to back up why chewing gum should be outlawed, if that was the cause of the week.

I have never been Tazed, however I've been pepper sprayed dozens of times and tossed around/ choked/ twisted up. Despite what you or anyone else thinks, the P-O-L-I-C-E don't use tazers because it's fun to zap someone. In a physical confrontation, there is no magical ninja stun that puts an end to the situation, but a Tazer does. Like it or not, a fight is a fight and when it's on it's on, whether I am wearing a badge or not. For liability sake, you would never put in a report that you had to "fiight" with a suspect.

So, with that in mind, say suspect #1 and the po-po are in a standoff off sorts, with the suspect refusing to do whatever he/ she is supposed to do. Is it better for the cop to go hands on and "test the waters"? See how tough this dude really is? Is it better to get kneed in the stomach and driven to the ground? Sprayed with crap that will make you wanna scratch your eyes out and spend the next 40 minutes with snot spewing outta your nose and mouth? Get smacked with, what in reality is nothing more than a steel pipe?

Tazers have never caused ANYONE to die, I don't care what Amnesty International says. There are ALWAYS underlying conditions that result in a fatality, not just the Tazer alone. Get a hold of the use of force reports from any decent size PD that does not use Tazers and you'll how many suspects are taken the hospital. How many officers are taken to the hospital. How many broken bones, noses and heads there have been.

Compare those reports to a similar agency that does use Tazers. I can GUARANTEE you will see a huge decrease in both officer and suspect injuries. There is a reason these things are in use.

Well said.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:50 AM   #28
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Quote:
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Tazers have never caused ANYONE to die, I don't care what Amnesty International says.
Never ever? Absolutes are absolutely flawed, in most cases.

Deputy: Man Who Died After Taser Stun Was Handcuffed - Winston-Salem News Story - WXII The Triad Maybe it was the cuffs?

Man dies after police jolt him with stun gun - CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/15/taser.death/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/22/taser.death/index.html OK, OK, it did take a few tries, but they finally got him dead.

Ever, ever?
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:28 PM   #29
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Never ever? Absolutes are absolutely flawed, in most cases.

Deputy: Man Who Died After Taser Stun Was Handcuffed - Winston-Salem News Story - WXII The Triad Maybe it was the cuffs?
"His kidney's shut down and he was bleeding inside, and he was all bruised up – knots on his head, his eyes all messed up," Davidson wife, Chasity, said.

Last time I looked a tazer didn't get you a black eye. Taser did not kill this one. Sorry.


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Again this stated no cause of death. SO how do you know if the taser did or did not kill the man? I am going to say it was an underlying heart condition from doing drugs.

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You can not tell me that this guy was not on something. He was sweating profusley and at one point when he was behind the screaning station had some kind of weapon in his hand. Again no proof the taser killed him. Show me where it killed him. He was still alive and FIGHTING after they stopped and tried to handcuff the guy. He was also very aggitated and building a blockade. THAT DUDE WAS ON DRUGS.

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Man dies after cop hits him with Taser 9 times - CNN.com OK, OK, it did take a few tries, but they finally got him dead.

Ever, ever?
OK I will give you the last one maybe. I would still say it was not the taser but the Ahole using it. That cop was fired from the force and is facing charges. It was not the taser that killed him it was the cop abusing the taser.

I can not believe all the dribble I am hearing in this thread. All of this blaming a tool, well guess what boys and girls. the mother effing liberal gun grabbers are doing the same thing to us. I can't believe that anyone who owns a firearm would stoope to the same level as the gun grabbers. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:04 PM   #30
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I can not believe all the dribble I am hearing in this thread. All of this blaming a tool, well guess what boys and girls. the mother effing liberal gun grabbers are doing the same thing to us. I can't believe that anyone who owns a firearm would stoope to the same level as the gun grabbers. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
The discussion was about if Tazers have ever killed people and if Police should carry them, not if they should be made illegal. Denying a truth to further your position is also something that the gun grabbers do.
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