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Creeker 07-01-2011 01:08 PM

For your viewing pleasure, part 2
I said I'd try to post some pictures of targets shot with a Keith bullet. This bullet is a 44, in fact a Lyman 429421.

I took a challenge from a member on another board after I posted an article by Ross Seyfried saying the Keith bullet was old-fashioned & perhaps obsolete? Below is my post:

The question was asked in the first thread: Is the Keith Bullet old-fashioned & perhaps obsolete?

We received answers but also received comparisons to other type bullets. With these comparisons also came challenges. Donít you love a challenge?

Since 44man was willing to show what his bullet/load/sixgun would do I feel I should also because I started the first thread. Keep in mind the original question. If you look at the article & the date of said, it was June 2000. So keep in mind that was nearly 11 years ago.

I know things have advanced & much of it I havenít kept up with. All I know is what I know. When I looked at the article I noticed the bullet Mr. Seyfried [hope Iím spelling his name correctly] showed as a 260 Keith, ISNíT. Looks nothing like a bullet that would be called a Keith. What is a real Keith? An interesting read on the subject is here: With 111 post & 7,607 views we all know most things Keith will stir conversation.

I took offense at the picture & the statement that the Keith was perhaps obsolete. I have no reason to doubt his shooting skills or the paper plate pictured with 5 bullet holes he shot offhand. BUT I thought my Keiths do that. Keep in mind this was June 2000.

How Ďbout today? I took 44mans challenge to produce some pictures. I went to the local range yesterday knowing the rain & cold would keep other shooters away & I could take as long as needed to do some testing.

First the conditions, overcast sky, canít beat that for shooting & Iíve never minded the cold & rain. The sixgun, a borrowed Ruger Hunter Super Blackhawk 44 Mag Iíve never shot. The little sixgun has an excellent trigger tuned by its owner, a friend of mine.

Now some negatives. I list these not to make excuse for my shooting, I am what I am, but list them as I wish my shooting or problems to take nothing from the bullet. Enough said.

I left the house without changing my glasses. I shoot see better with the ones left in the drawer. The front sight has a red insert & most will tell you this isnít the best setup for precision shooting. Another problem is the width of the front sight or the width of the rear blade gap. I require plenty of light on each side the front sight to keep things from fuzzing out. Next was the rest, not the best.

Ok, things are what they are & I am what I am so consider this when judging the bullet performance. Hope you enjoy the pictures.

The sixgun & load. L-429421 cast from straight air cooled WWs which test 9-10 BHN. I sized these .430 & lubed with Ballisti Cast hard commercial lube. The load used CCI 300 primers & 20 grains of 2400.

Having never fired this sixgun I put a target at 25 yards. The Ruger was sighted for at 240 JHP with 23.3 grains of WW296 by the owner at 50 yards. The first shot I fired was for a bullet test into milk jugs of water. The next five I fired at the 25 yard target. I moved the target to 50 yards & fired 6. Both groups were Ďbout 3 inches. Very poor shooting on my part. I couldnít see the sights well & was discouraged. This is the target.

Go to post 2.

Creeker 07-01-2011 01:11 PM

Post 2
I replaced the 50 yard target & fired 5 more. The group was still Ďbout 3 inches.

After this I made the decision to fire a couple of cylinders at random targets [plinking] to get a better feel for the Ruger & itís sights. I tried to stop the plinking before my nerves were shot. About 50 full loads of 44 mag will shell shock Creeker.

Next I set a target at 160 yards. From the target to the 150 yard pin was nine long downhill steps. Hereís a look at the bench/sixgun/target.

If you look just above the front sight & very slightly to the right you can see the cardboard target & bull. That bull is 6 inches & if youíre going to do this it should be at least 12 inches.

Go to post 3.

Creeker 07-01-2011 01:16 PM

Post 3
I mentioned the red front sight & the rest I used as a negative. The rest was a coffee can, a hospital rag & a bath towel. Here they are.

Go to post 4.

Creeker 07-01-2011 01:27 PM

Post 4
I shoved 5 loads in the cylinder, took a rest & looked at the sights. I thought what my wife so often says: ďIt is what it is.Ē Iíve never concentrated on sight picture like I did for these 5 shots. It was tough, it was fuzz but it is what it is. If I was to take 44mans challenge to produce some pictures I had to send the 5 Keiths down range & take the picture.

The shots? I called no bad shots. They all felt good. I walked out to the target with camera in hand. Keep in mind I placed the bull at the top of the cardboard & didnít move the rear sight before firing the shots.

The results? One shot was a measured 14 inches low in the dirt. I didnít flinch or pull the shot. The blame had to lie with the sight picture. The other 4 shots formed a group. Hereís the target & the measurement after coming home. Please note the 5 shots in the upper right hand corner were from a 357 being shot also.

Could the group have been better? After all the glasses, the rest, too small a bull, strange to me sixgun, all this must add up. But when you consider this 60 year old shooter who really isnít a pro, I doubt I could do much better on the best of days. And if the shot in the dirt was on the paper, what would the group size have been? I could have tried another target but didnít. This was an ďon demandĒ challenge.

In conclusion, I will not now nor will I ever call the Keith obsolete. It will do for me at least 99% of what I need to do. Is the LBT or perhaps a RNFP better than the Keith? That wasnít the question. The question still is: Does Mr. Seyfried know of what he speaks when he calls the Keith, perhaps obsolete?

Go to post 5.

Creeker 07-01-2011 01:35 PM

Post 5
All the above has a story line but I posted it here just for the pictures. Many who aren't sixgun shooters or don't have a place to fire a sixgun at these ranges may not know they will do some good work out past 50 yards.

Any way in the other thread, "For your viewing please" questions were asked about those bullets as to what they would be used for. I hope this thread answers some of those questions.

The Keith is a fine all round bullet. I do however read some complaints from others but this bullet has always worked for me in most sixguns. In fact I've cast it since 1973, won some matches with it, killed some game, & keep it as my go to bullet............Creeker

Gojubrian 07-01-2011 02:09 PM

That's amazing!

Thanks for the info, the work, and the pics!

Creeker 07-01-2011 02:17 PM

You're welcome.

russ 07-01-2011 02:19 PM

Great shooting in my book. Excellent pictures and write up as well.

Trez 07-01-2011 03:51 PM

Whats a keith bullet? It looks like a flat nose to me.. You said it was a 44 mag? What would make it obsolete? I thought calibers went obsolete not bullets... :confused:

Creeker 07-02-2011 01:34 AM


Originally Posted by Trez (Post 532592)
Whats a keith bullet? It looks like a flat nose to me.. You said it was a 44 mag? What would make it obsolete? I thought calibers went obsolete not bullets... :confused:

It is a type of SWC named after Elmer Keith who made the bullet famous. Said bullets should have three driving bands of equal width & diameter. There should be a crimp groove & lube groove. Here is an example of a 44 Keith bullet.

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