Reloading question


Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gear & Accessories > Ammunition & Reloading > Reloading question

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-14-2009, 01:57 AM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ChuckMc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 40
Default Reloading question

I am used to reloading my ammo right out of my manuals, but recently, due to the economy and the lack of available supplies, I decided to try Barry's plated bullets in 147 gr 9mm. I am unable to find a direct recipe for these bullets. I understand the important factor is the sectional density. My manual says the sec density for a 147 gr FMJ bullet is 0.167, but a plated bullet will be different, won't it? Or, am I splitting hairs?
Thanks for any help.



__________________

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."
- GEORGE WASHINGTON (from his Farewell Address, 1796) .


Last edited by ChuckMc1; 05-14-2009 at 03:23 AM.
ChuckMc1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 05-14-2009, 03:24 AM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BILLYBOB44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: My "Man Cave" up North..
Posts: 1,261
Liked 10 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default Sectional density?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckMc1 View Post
I am used to reloading my ammo right out of my manuals, but recently, due to the economy and the lack of available supplies, I decided to try Barry's cast bullets in 147 gr 9mm. I am unable to find a direct recipe for these bullets. I understand the important factor is the sectional density. My manual says the sec density for a 147 gr FMJ bullet is 0.167, but a cast bullet will be different, won't it? Or, am I splitting hairs?
Thanks for any help.
ChuchMc, you have to be the first handloader I have ever seen that was concerned at all on sectional density on a PISTOL load. To me that spec. is not of a concern.My Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook lists a Speer TMJ #4006 147gr. at 0.167SD-Lyman cast #356637 147gr. at 0.166SD. The difference is due to the TMJ is .355dia.-Lyman cast is .356dia. Are your Berry's bullets Hard Cast, or Plated? My Handbook lists 12 different powders for the TMJ bullet, and 13 different powders for the Lyman cast 147gr. bullet. Should be easy to find your own recipe for your 147gr. 9mm, but I don't worry about Sectional Density in handgun loads.


__________________

NRA Life MEMBER 1976

BILLYBOB44 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 02:52 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ChuckMc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYBOB44 View Post
ChuchMc, you have to be the first handloader I have ever seen that was concerned at all on sectional density on a PISTOL load. To me that spec. is not of a concern.My Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook lists a Speer TMJ #4006 147gr. at 0.167SD-Lyman cast #356637 147gr. at 0.166SD. The difference is due to the TMJ is .355dia.-Lyman cast is .356dia. Are your Berry's bullets Hard Cast, or Plated? My Handbook lists 12 different powders for the TMJ bullet, and 13 different powders for the Lyman cast 147gr. bullet. Should be easy to find your own recipe for your 147gr. 9mm, but I don't worry about Sectional Density in handgun loads.
OK, maybe I didn't make myself very clear and I must have edited my post after you read it. These are the plated bullets. I was told that the sectional density would be different than a FMJ and the only recipe I have is for a FMJ in this cal. and grain of bullet. My qestion is, should I use a recipe for a FMJ in the same grain bullet as the plated bullet and is the difference so minimal that it is of no real concern?
All I'm trying to do is be sure I'm reloading responsibly. My kids might be shooting these rounds. I also wouldn't want to damage my new XD
__________________
ChuckMc1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 03:09 PM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Stafford, Virginia,The state of insanity.
Posts: 14,043
Liked 34 Times on 29 Posts

Default

I don't for see a problem with loading using data for a FMJ and not a platted. I use FMJ and lead in my 45acp and use the same amount for each.

__________________
cpttango30 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 03:14 PM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
RL357Mag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albany,New York
Posts: 3,251
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckMc1 View Post
OK, maybe I didn't make myself very clear and I must have edited my post after you read it. These are the plated bullets. I was told that the sectional density would be different than a FMJ and the only recipe I have is for a FMJ in this cal. and grain of bullet. My qestion is, should I use a recipe for a FMJ in the same grain bullet as the plated bullet and is the difference so minimal that it is of no real concern?
All I'm trying to do is be sure I'm reloading responsibly. My kids might be shooting these rounds. I also wouldn't want to damage my new XD
Powder volume is based solely on bullet length & weight and subsequent pressure developed, not bullet construction. Terminal performance is a function of bullet construction. Sectional density is only a concern when comparing the BC (ballistic coefficient) of various bullet designs. A cursory glance at any reloading manual will reveal that loads are based on bullet weights, not sectional density...
__________________
Guns Have Only Two Enemies-Rust and Politicians
"The United States Constitution (c) 1791 - All Rights Reserved"
If Guns Kill, Do Pencils Mis-spell Words?
Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body - USMC
"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum"

Last edited by RL357Mag; 05-14-2009 at 03:18 PM.
RL357Mag is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 03:37 PM   #6
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,907
Liked 9150 Times on 3952 Posts
Likes Given: 1427

Default

Would agree with one exception- loads for lead cast bullets are generally slower than for jacketed (full or semi) due to problems with leading up a barrel. Plated bullets tend to reduce leading.

Berry's (not Barry's) reccomends limiting loads to 1200 fps or less.

A plated bullet will have a VERY thin layer of plating metal over lead, vs a jacketed bullet, that has a significant layer of gilding metal (usually copper/nickel alloy)

Bottom line- I would use load data for a lead cast bullet with plated bullets.

__________________
c3shooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 05:08 PM   #7
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,195
Liked 2860 Times on 1490 Posts
Likes Given: 254

Default

Plated bullets tend to "act like cast bullets" as far as pressures and velocities for a given charge. They just are much less likely to lead the barrel. You can use the same data as you would for a 147gr FMJ, BUT your velocity may be higher than with the FMJ. Generally jacketed bullets are more "sticky" than cast or plated bullets and take more powder to acheive a given velocity.

As with any load developemnt, reduce and work up. You will likely find that you there is a sweet spot about 1/2 - 1 1/2 grains under max in the 9mm.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 09:40 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
hunter Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,413
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Would agree with one exception- loads for lead cast bullets are generally slower than for jacketed (full or semi) due to problems with leading up a barrel. Plated bullets tend to reduce leading.

Berry's (not Barry's) reccomends limiting loads to 1200 fps or less.

A plated bullet will have a VERY thin layer of plating metal over lead, vs a jacketed bullet, that has a significant layer of gilding metal (usually copper/nickel alloy)

Bottom line- I would use load data for a lead cast bullet with plated bullets.
This is all you need to do. I also load plated bullets in my 40. C3shooter is right on the money.
__________________

God, Family, Guns, in that order.

hunter Joe is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ChuckMc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 40
Default

Thank you guys for the info. I would rather be safe than sorry and would rather ask a stupid question than make a stupid mistake.
Thanks again, Chuck

__________________
ChuckMc1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 10:11 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BILLYBOB44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: My "Man Cave" up North..
Posts: 1,261
Liked 10 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default Great to be Safe!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckMc1 View Post
Thank you guys for the info. I would rather be safe than sorry and would rather ask a stupid question than make a stupid mistake.
Thanks again, Chuck
Good call Chuck. I load 124 or 125gr Berry's Plated Bullets usually right in-between cast/jacketed specs.(Hi side of cast/Lo side of JHP). They/ along with all I load for my CZ P-01 do well. The usual rule-of-thumb, is to keep Hard Cast Bullets at, or below 1000fps. to avoid excessive leading of the barrel. Some will load above that speed, but I am lazy when it comes to De-Leading my barrels! HA!!
Also Chuck, it's Great to see you sharing our favorite hobby, with your children. As the Wife, and I did- Teach them young, proper firearms safety, and work to avoid mistakes later on. We worked with 4-(Now the oldest 33-the youngest 24), and they all practice proper firearms etiquette.:


__________________

NRA Life MEMBER 1976

BILLYBOB44 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
New to Reloading? L@@k here. cpttango30 Ammunition & Reloading 65 08-02-2014 07:40 PM
Newbe question on reloading 40 S&W (Sorry it's a long post) fireman091 Ammunition & Reloading 19 12-01-2010 01:15 AM
Reloading Win. 270 razorback Ammunition & Reloading 4 05-13-2009 01:14 AM
Question on reloading 9mm ChuckMc1 Ammunition & Reloading 2 04-21-2009 10:22 PM
Reloading Question Titleist Ammunition & Reloading 4 02-12-2008 01:14 AM