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Old 01-25-2013, 02:05 AM   #11
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Pistol dies are different than rifle dies.

Yes neck sizing a fired case will make a round that is better tuned to your rifle. Also when you full length size you push the shoulder back a little and that causes the case to stretch a little. The less you full length size the less you will have to trim. And the longer your brass will last.

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Old 01-25-2013, 02:19 AM   #12
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That maybe so however some actions spring just a little. Semiautos lack support thru the cycle. You will need to FL size this brass. Most semiautos require an SB Die {small base}.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:24 AM   #13
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Default semi autos

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Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
That maybe so however some actions spring just a little. Semiautos lack support thru the cycle. You will need to FL size this brass. Most semiautos require an SB Die {small base}.

That is another reason I don't care for semi autos in rifles or shotguns. They are just too hard on the cases for reloading (if you can even find all of them after shooting). All of my rifles are either Ruger single shots or bolt actions. My shot guns are side by sides and O/U's. I do have a pump Model 12 Winchester 28 gauge and a Winchester Model 42 .410.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:28 PM   #14
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Default Most chambers do NOT require Small Base Dies.

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That maybe so however some actions spring just a little. Semiautos lack support thru the cycle. You will need to FL size this brass. Most semiautos require an SB Die {small base}.
^^^Small base dies, in general, are a "Fix" for a problem that's not there.
Very tight "Match" chambers MAY cycle more reliably with SB dies??

If you have a QUALITY Full Length size die, adjusted properly (1/4 to 1/2 turn "Over Cam" of the press), you will not need SB dies.

NATO chambered rifles (5.56/7.62) will NOT be bettered with a Small Base Size Die...Bill.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:57 PM   #15
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Billybob, your post is well? Hey Cotton you own a Winchester Mdl. 42? Damn now that is one class shotgun. Which grade?

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Old 01-25-2013, 04:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYBOB44 View Post
^^^Small base dies, in general, are a "Fix" for a problem that's not there.
Very tight "Match" chambers MAY cycle more reliably with SB dies??

If you have a QUALITY Full Length size die, adjusted properly (1/4 to 1/2 turn "Over Cam" of the press), you will not need SB dies.

NATO chambered rifles (5.56/7.62) will NOT be bettered with a Small Base Size Die...Bill.
That is one opinion. Many people have a very different opinion. I FL size most rifle cases, even for semi-autos. I use the Dillon sizer (SB) for 5.56 partially because my old FL RCBS die was hopelessly scratched and I needed a new die. Dillon was available.

I had a Mini-14 MANY years ago that required SB sizing for anything close to reliable functioning. Even then, it sucked and was traded off.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #17
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Default Thanks for the reply robo..

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That is one opinion. Many people have a very different opinion. I FL size most rifle cases, even for semi-autos. I use the Dillon sizer (SB) for 5.56 partially because my old FL RCBS die was hopelessly scratched and I needed a new die. Dillon was available.

I had a Mini-14 MANY years ago that required SB sizing for anything close to reliable functioning. Even then, it sucked and was traded off.
Thanks for the input robo--you know, I have been away from this Forum for a little while+just thought that I would "Stir some Sheet" HA HA..

I have/and used to use a RCBS Small Base Size Die in .223. After some testing on my/others .223/5.56 chambers, have found that my Redding Full Length Size Die does exactly the same job.-He** my SB die may have some rust on it by now?? Don't know? I haven't had it out for "Awhile"??
Heck, send your RCBS FL die back for replacement.. I would venture to say that your Dillon Size Die is not Small Base-All that I have seen have a large radius to be used on a progressive press?? Not really sure on that-I do not have Dillon .223/5.56 dies.
I use Dillon Dies on all my common hand gun calibers, and Redding or RCBS on all of my rifle loads.
Thanks again, robo for your reply, and I DO know what "Opinions" are likeHA HA...Bill.

PS: Don't blame you a bit for trading off the Mini-14...THAT'S one hard weapon to load for reliably...
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLYBOB44


If you have a QUALITY Full Length size die, adjusted properly (1/4 to 1/2 turn "Over Cam" of the press), you will not need SB dies.

NATO chambered rifles (5.56/7.62) will NOT be bettered with a Small Base Size Die...Bill.
My experience differs from this... I am new to reloading, but read a bunch before attempting to load .223 rounds. I "properly adjusted" my RCBS dies to 1/8-1/4(per instructions) turn over cam. The rounds were reliable and accurate. I then purchased a case length gauge and found that my shoulders had been pushed back too far(out of spec!). The gauge's instructions recommended I toss the brass. In order to properly headspace my brass the die needed to barely touch the shell holder at the top of the pull. My rifle is chambered in 5.56 and still shoots reliably with the new adjustment.

My theory: Tight chambered semi auto's may need a small base die. In spec 5.56 chambers should not require them. If you are on the fence about which to buy, get the FL as this will work your brass less. If your gun is not reliable with the fl dies, 1. Sell them to fund he SB dies, or 2. Buy something with an in spec chamber.

Just a greenhorn's opinion after loading a whopping 500 rounds. And no, I didn't toss the 200 out of spec brass. I'm going to shoot them back into spec and do it right next time.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:09 PM   #19
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Default Semi-auto or Bolt Gun??

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My experience differs from this... I am new to reloading, but read a bunch before attempting to load .223 rounds. I "properly adjusted" my RCBS dies to 1/8-1/4(per instructions) turn over cam. The rounds were reliable and accurate. I then purchased a case length gauge and found that my shoulders had been pushed back too far(out of spec!). The gauge's instructions recommended I toss the brass. In order to properly headspace my brass the die needed to barely touch the shell holder at the top of the pull. My rifle is chambered in 5.56 and still shoots reliably with the new adjustment.

My theory: Tight chambered semi auto's may need a small base die. In spec 5.56 chambers should not require them. If you are on the fence about which to buy, get the FL as this will work your brass less. If your gun is not reliable with the fl dies, 1. Sell them to fund he SB dies, or 2. Buy something with an in spec chamber.

Just a greenhorn's opinion after loading a whopping 500 rounds. And no, I didn't toss the 200 out of spec brass. I'm going to shoot them back into spec and do it right next time.
Your theory, CT, is spot on. Where we come into some issues is if the ammo is to be fired in multi guns-not just one particular weapon.
Most seasoned hand loaders have tailored brass to their specific rifle. This is easiest done in a bolt gun. Back off of your FL size die, and just turn in about 1/8 of a turn at a time, until the bolt just closes easily. Then crank down the lock ring/retainer screw, and your brass is perfect for THAT rifle.

Probably 75-80% of all .223/5.56 ammo is fired in semi-auto weapons, and not bolt guns. With this in mind, most of this caliber is "Undersized" to fit multi weapons.

A hand loader can size to JUST fit the chamber on HIS rifle for the most accuracy, but this usually leads to problems as the weapon warms up/gets dirty. For ME, that's why I usually get a little more "Aggressive" on my sizing operation.

This is why I separate my .223 brass that I shoot in a semi-auto from .223 brass that I shoot in my bolt guns...Bill.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:14 PM   #20
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I usually just use my FL die to neck size, I adjust it so it only sizes the neck.. 7.7x58 is the only caliber I have a actual NS die for (Just because I got it cheap, and I use '06 to make my 7.7.)

The only Caliber I need a SB die is for 9mm, and thats for a revolver...

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