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Old 02-01-2013, 03:00 PM   #31
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There are two ways to assess the "sense" in reloading.

First is "I will spend X dollars on ammo, no matter what." This is for those monthly budget folks who buy what they buy every month, rain or shine. If you have $40 to spend, and want as much ammo as you can, reloading gets you more ammo for your $40, outside of the setup costs of press and dies.

Second is "I will fire 500 rounds a month, no matter what." This is for the range hounds who make their weekly/monthly trip and fire what they fire, regardless of what it costs. You're going to fire those rounds, and reloading makes the cost of that batch lower, outside of the setup costs of press and dies.

I'm still waffling on the decision to reload or not, as I'm not either of these. I don't buy a ton of ammo, and don't have regular access to a place to shoot that hasn't started getting sketchy (local sandpit, too many stangers coming in and out now). I don't fit the "will spend X every month" mold, nor do I fit the "will fire X rounds every month" mold.

I did buy the ABCs book on Amazon the other night (piggybacking on one of the wife's orders to get free shipping!). My biggest fascination is with casting bullets. I love molten metal for some reason.

Oh, and as an FYI, the cost of used copies of ABCs of Reloading jumped right alongside the panic buying. Used book sellers saw the run on supplies and doubled their prices! It's actually cheaper now to just buy the new copy.

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:25 PM   #32
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I really don't understand the mindset of reloading is more expensive because you have to buy components or if you reload you will shoot more or the big one is if you only shoot a little reloading is good but if you shoot a lot it won't save you anything, this is all complete bs.

Yes you have to get components and equipment which is going to be an initial cost, which at todays ammo prices is made up for fairly quickly, even faster for someone who shoots a lot.

If the price of factory ammo is $25 and you can reload them for $8 per box you are saving $17 every time you reload that box of shells, it adds up quickly and pays for you equipment. I can buy brass new every time and reload it and still save money compared to buying factory ammo, of course this is dumb and one should reuse brass as much as possible, but this just goes to show that even with the brass investment reloading is still cheaper.

I disagree with the comment made earlier here about if you shoot a lot then you aren't saving as much, common sense would tell me that I am saving more. If I can load a shell for .25 as opposed to buying said shell for .60 then I am saving .35 every time I pull the trigger regardless if I shoot 5 times or 500 times, if I didn't reload I would have had to pay factory price for those 500 shots and it would have cost more than twice what reloading costs.

Yes getting the addiction costs some money, usually extra money that isn't completely necessary to be spending, one will buy powders and bullets and fancy trinkets for the loading bench, all of which can easily be avoided but if that is how you entertain yourself then what is the harm, all of you would be hard pressed to give me examples of any hobby that is a 1 time investment and never costs anything thererafter. I avoid this by doing some swapping with friends when I want to try powders to work up loads, same with bullets, they have something I don't have I will get enough from them make up some loads, then if they need something to try later and I have it they get some from me, saves from having to buy countless lbs of powder and boxes of bullets only to find your gun isn't particularly fond of them.

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Old 02-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #33
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damn well said Blu!

it's also part of the shooting sport and adds another part to shooting. i didn't get into reloading to save money, i got into to add to my shooting ability. i can work up loads that are more accurate than what i can buy as factory loaded ammo for less that is fine tuned to that rifle or pistol for less. i can shoot calibers that are pretty expensive to shoot if i only shot factory ammo. i can reload for obsolete calibers that have very few factory offerings anymore. common sense tells you, the only way to get good at shooting is to pull the trigger. well reloading allows me to pull the trigger more often. also as a side benefit, i actually enjoy reloading. i enjoy learning how to make a new load and then trying it out. i enjoy trying new combinations of components and making a more accurate round. i enjoy finding a combination of components and then fine tuning it to get just a little more out of it.

some weekends when i shoot my Ruger M77V in 280 Rem. i will shoot close to 100 rounds. if i bought factory loaded ammo, premium ammo, that cost would be about $220. when i shoot my reloads, that cost is about $68. thats a savings of $152. that means i can shoot 3.2 times the amount for what i would spend if i shot factory ammo. thats approximately 320 rounds of shooting, vs. 100 rounds. so my potential for being a better and more accurate shooter increases by that much. yeah i like those odds!

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Old 02-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad
Your per-round costs will be less, but your rounds-per-range trip will go up, so there is this delta point where, once you pass that point, you are spending more shooting than you would have had you not taken up reloading in the first place. Add to that the guns that you would have dismissed owning because they are rare and/or expensive to buy ammo for- but now you can make your own, and you are buying more guns. Now add to that all of the obscure reloading dies and equipment that you will end up with because your buddy's-sister's-friend's-husband-who-was-a-reloader-passed-away-and-left-behind-all-of-this-useless-stuff-would-you-please-come-haul-it-off-for-her-or-its-going-to-the-dump and then you have a bunch of new dies that you have to get guns for. (This exact thing has happened to me three times now- well, only once was it my buddy's sister's friend's husband. The other times it was an ex-husband and another was a father.).

It has a way of creeping up on you.
Wait. Is buying more guns a problem? Lol. All the posts here are 100% true whether they say you save or you don't. I still convince myself I save money but I have a TON of money in equipment and supplies but its like what was mentioned earlier. It's a hobby. A very rewarding one. Load development is the best. Making a round that is perfect for your weapon. Making rounds that outshoot gold medal match or just plinking rounds. It's all worth it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by axxe55

but are you enjoying the load development? if so, then it's worth it to be reloading and shooting.
I enjoy it tremendously. There are to many positives to list here.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:42 AM   #36
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I enjoy it tremendously. There are to many positives to list here.
This is very true - to look at reloading strictly in terms of dollars saved is the wrong approach most of the time as many people who reload enjoy that process as much as shooting or any other firearms related activity. There are several people I know who enjoy reloading more than shooting as they can break out all their OCD fixations in the reloading process -- that is NOT intended to be taken as a jab at them as they make some amazingly good ammo.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:05 AM   #37
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AXX55, I don't think it has anything to do with reloading. There seems to be a number of members who are taking a negative stand on everything of late.
I think when we blend modern math with a long winter and Political correctness we get mindless drift.
I am guilty of that. With a new civil war, seeming possible, and the gov appearing to be ramping up to launch one, tuff to look for the bright side sometimes. The billion plus round order the gov made is partially why we have an ammo shortage in the first place.

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Hornady factory ammo for my 44 Mag runs me about $19 per 20 of 240 gr. XTP. my reloads for the 44 mag using 200 or 240 gr XTP bullets runs me about $7.74 per 20.
If all you look at is the ammo sitting in front of you, it looks like you are spending 2/3rds less, which is great.

However, factoring in seen, and unseen costs, brings down the savings some.

Time. A place to work, the dining room gets old after a while. Man cave, garage, maybe, but how many hours do you want to be in the garage?

Insurance. Does your insurance agent know you manufacture ammo in your home! If a fire starts, or an explosion, you have insurance for that? Without declaring the new hobby? If you let a box slide to buddies, friends, someone at the range, that makes it not a hobby, but a business.

Boom. If just one round gets a double charge, phone rings, baby pulls at your pants, wife hollars something at you, any distraction, and you don't catch your error, most guns will explode in your hands. People have lost fingers, teeth, eyes, lives. Gun powder is just what it sounds like.

Health. Gun powder, and all the chemicals that go with the gun hobby, are pretty hard on your health. If you are going to be messing with reloading, you need to do so with adequate ventilation and a procedure for keeping your hands and clothing clean.

I am going to keep buying what I need, and trust the supplies free up again.

Be Safe!
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #38
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I've been reloading for a long time, have multiple presses in several calibers. Its hard to calculate the savings because it really depends on how much you are going to shoot. If you buy all the equipment, load 500 rounds, get bored with it, and stop, well, you should have bought rounds from the store. Handloading and reloading is something you think about a long time before you invest. It may NOT be to save money. If you are building up a load for that special rifle, forget it, it costs more. If you want to load up 2,000 rounds of 9mm or .45 ACP for plinking year round, you can lower your cost per round. But THAT depends on your initial investment. I reload because I enjoy it first, then I save money. If you only factor the variables, powder, bullets, primers, and you don't have to buy brass, you can save money. If you add the equipment, it becomes a lot more expensive until you reload a good inventory of rounds. If you want to save money reloading, make the commitment for life. Make it your new hobby. Then save money.

I've also found in my reloading that the less you spend on equipment, the more time it takes YOU to produce rounds. I started with Lee, then advanced to Dillon. Today I have two progressive presses, a Lee for .223, .308, and .357. I use the Dillon for .45ACP and 9mm. I shoot about 3,000 rounds per year total. I've invested in all the extras for the Dillon so I can crank em out quickly. Reloading 1,000 rounds in a day with the Dillon is pretty easy. Loading 100 rounds of .308 in the Lee takes about the same amount of time...and I never factor my time into it, or I'd never save money....

Tony in WI

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Old 02-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #39
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I am guilty of that. With a new civil war, seeming possible, and the gov appearing to be ramping up to launch one, tuff to look for the bright side sometimes. The billion plus round order the gov made is partially why we have an ammo shortage in the first place.



If all you look at is the ammo sitting in front of you, it looks like you are spending 2/3rds less, which is great.

However, factoring in seen, and unseen costs, brings down the savings some.

Time. A place to work, the dining room gets old after a while. Man cave, garage, maybe, but how many hours do you want to be in the garage?

Insurance. Does your insurance agent know you manufacture ammo in your home! If a fire starts, or an explosion, you have insurance for that? Without declaring the new hobby? If you let a box slide to buddies, friends, someone at the range, that makes it not a hobby, but a business.

Boom. If just one round gets a double charge, phone rings, baby pulls at your pants, wife hollars something at you, any distraction, and you don't catch your error, most guns will explode in your hands. People have lost fingers, teeth, eyes, lives. Gun powder is just what it sounds like.

Health. Gun powder, and all the chemicals that go with the gun hobby, are pretty hard on your health. If you are going to be messing with reloading, you need to do so with adequate ventilation and a procedure for keeping your hands and clothing clean.

I am going to keep buying what I need, and trust the supplies free up again.

Be Safe!
i can address those points very easily.

time : the time i spend reloading is time well spent, because i can shoot more less expenxively. as said before, i do enjoy it. no different than the time spent reading a good book or watching a movie i enjoy. i also find it relaxing and helps me relieve stress.

insurance : i carry a very huge policy on my homeowners insurance and my firearms are listed, just in case they were stolen or lost in fire or whatever. i am sure that many insurance companies are smart enough to know that people who own firearms, may reload. i was never asked or had to list that i did, so i really don't concern myself with it. also from all i have seen of fires involving gun powder, the gasoline i keep in the garage or the areasols i keep under the kitchen counter, or the LPG tank on back porch for he BBQ pit are more a danger.

boom : i'd be foolish to say that never happens, because it does. i try and pay very close attention to what i'm doing, and check, double check to be safe. i don't reload if i cant give it my full attention or mind is just into it. even though i do enjoy it, i still take it seriously and give it the respect it deserves. i have said this before and feel it needs to be said again. reloading is a safe and rewarding hobby, if done correctly and with safety in mind. if not it can hurt or even possibly kill you. gun powder is a dangerous substance and deserves huge amounts of respect.

health : i agree that it can possibly cause health problems is used improperly. i always wash my hands afterwards. i keep plenty of ventilation at all times. now my reloading area is probably the exception rather than the rule, as mine is done in a 10x14 storage building i have just for reloading and gun hobby, that located about 35 feet from the house. i also have plenty of rags and have water close by if needed.

AR10, these were good points to bring up to have addressed and what others need to consider when getting into reloading. i am glad you brought them up and hope it helps someone else either be safe or to decide whether they need or want to reload as a hobby.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:57 PM   #40
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I don't think reloading ammo for personal use in the home can be considered "Manufacture of ammo" to begin with. Maybe if you are doing it as a business. I didn't spend one cent on a place to set up, it's in my spare bedroom, I don't notice any harsh chemical fumes come off any of my supplies, I would be more worried about breathing in fumes from all the burnt powder and lead bullets fired at an indoor range with poor ventilation. As far as a boom, it won't happen if you pay attention to what you are doing, some cases don't even have the capacity to allow for a double charge, you would notice powder overflowing from the case in this situation, if you were worried about it you could always weigh each finished shell upon completion, if one is substantially heavier by the weight of a powder charge then you could catch it that way. I have reloaded many shells and not had that happen, however I set up my operation in an assembly line type scenario where the empty brass starts out in one place then is moved on as it progresses so I can tell by looking at it what in needs next.

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