Reloading For 45/70 Government
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gear & Accessories > Ammunition & Reloading > Reloading For 45/70 Government

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2012, 05:17 AM   #1
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 14,534
Liked 8817 Times on 5100 Posts
Likes Given: 11496

Default Reloading For 45/70 Government

This is a new rifle to me, it is an 1886 Winchester that appears to be in great shape. I dropped it off at the gunsmith this afternoon to get it cleaned and inspected to see if it is safe to shoot and to check headspace. I am hoping I will be able to shoot it and in anticipation of that I am doing a little research on it. Since it was made in 1886 (yes, that is the YOM- confirmed at the gunsmith today) it is a black powder gun. This is the first in my collection. I did also get the reloading tools to use with BP (brass all throughout) but I am wondering if there is a more modern smokeless powder that would work better and is not corrosive.

Any thoughts you all might have? I have 4 weeks to wait for the gunsmith to be done (sort of backed up on work- which is a good sign for a good smith!)

__________________
Vikingdad is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 11-14-2012, 05:29 AM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Edge of Darkness
Posts: 6,495
Liked 4792 Times on 2680 Posts
Likes Given: 1736

Default

I have been shooting an 1886 SRC for many years. They are great rifles. Your rifle was a special order model with Dbl. set triggers. It was sold by Browning Bros. Ogden, Ut. This was one of the most expensive patents bought by Winchester from the Brownings.

I shoot a home cast 350 grs. 20-1 lead to tin bullet over a load of 5744. The 86' was made for Express Loads that being lighter bullets at higher velocity. I would choose a load around 1,200 fps. to start. These old rifles can be painful when you hit 1,500 fps. You may also want to check out Trail Boss powder it gives a very nice "Cowboy" load.

__________________
nitestalker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 05:57 AM   #3
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 14,534
Liked 8817 Times on 5100 Posts
Likes Given: 11496

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
I have been shooting an 1886 SRC for many years. They are great rifles. Your rifle was a special order model with Dbl. set triggers. It was sold by Browning Bros. Ogden, Ut. This was one of the most expensive patents bought by Winchester from the Brownings.

I shoot a home cast 350 grs. 20-1 lead to tin bullet over a load of 5744. The 86' was made for Express Loads that being lighter bullets at higher velocity. I would choose a load around 1,200 fps. to start. These old rifles can be painful when you hit 1,500 fps. You may also want to check out Trail Boss powder it gives a very nice "Cowboy" load.
So I take it you saw my pics in the other thread? (I guess I should have posted them here too) Thanks for the info. What does SRC mean? What do you mean about the patent? Is that on the double set triggers? They sure do feel sweet at least as much as I can tell without a snap cap.

One of the old coots at the gun store tonight said that Winchester made many versions of that rifle and you could custom order anything you wanted and they would put it together for you. He said he had seen one in Belize I think that had a 16" factory barrel on it. He also said the barrel was heavier than they usually put on them. (total weight is 8.75 lbs.)

Again, thanks for the input. When I get the word its OK to shoot I'll pick up some Trail Boss (that's a Hodgdon powder isn't it?).
__________________
Vikingdad is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:03 AM   #4
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 14,534
Liked 8817 Times on 5100 Posts
Likes Given: 11496

Default

OK, Its IMR. The max load they have for 300 grain is 1285 fps and then they have a 405 gr at 1007 fps.

__________________
Vikingdad is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:25 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Edge of Darkness
Posts: 6,495
Liked 4792 Times on 2680 Posts
Likes Given: 1736

Default

SRC means Saddle Ring Carbine. I would try the lead 350 grs. .458 diameter over the Trail Boss load. The rifle was designed for the lighter shorter bullets. Be damn carefull about loading long bullets in the magazine. If you get one that will not feed thru the action it is a problem. You must remove the magazine screw and cap feed spring and follower to clear the action.

The Mdl. of 1886 was and is the premier lever action rifle. It was strong and chambered for the big Ctgs of its day.The 45-90 and up. Your rifle was a special order. A rifle in rough condition starts around $1,200. The action with set triggers will go for much more. The 1886 is a very high demand Winchester in any condition. The 1886 was invented by J.Browning and the patent was sold to Winchester.

I would remove the magazine cap screw if possible. Remove the spring and follower and clean and oil the magazine tube with a patch and cleaning rod. I might add if that rifle was in 90 % condition it would be priced at $3,500.

__________________
nitestalker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:47 AM   #6
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 14,534
Liked 8817 Times on 5100 Posts
Likes Given: 11496

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
SRC means Saddle Ring Carbine. I would try the lead 350 grs. .458 diameter over the Trail Boss load. The rifle was designed for the lighter shorter bullets. Be damn carefull about loading long bullets in the magazine. If you get one that will not feed thru the action it is a problem. You must remove the magazine screw and cap feed spring and follower to clear the action.

The Mdl. of 1886 was and is the premier lever action rifle. It was strong and chambered for the big Ctgs of its day.The 45-90 and up. Your rifle was a special order. A rifle in rough condition starts around $1,200. The action with set triggers will go for much more. The 1886 is a very high demand Winchester in any condition. The 1886 was invented by J.Browning and the patent was sold to Winchester.

I would remove the magazine cap screw if possible. Remove the spring and follower and clean and oil the magazine tube with a patch and cleaning rod. I might add if that rifle was in 90 % condition it would be priced at $3,500.
Whoa! I figured a $1500 or so! Mine doesn't have the saddle ring though. Its probably so heavy that they figured it would need its own saddle . Definitely a carbine, but a heavy barreled one at that. Maybe I'll call the gunsmith tomorrow and ask them to rate it just for kicks.

Is the mag. cap screw threaded into the tube, or is it held by a pin or screw? (it is at the 'smith so I can't check). The gunsmith is going to be cleaning and inspecting it, but I will confirm that the magazine will be disassembled, cleaned and oiled as well. I usually do everything myself but with something this old I want to have a qualified smith inspect it first.
__________________
Vikingdad is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 04:02 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Edge of Darkness
Posts: 6,495
Liked 4792 Times on 2680 Posts
Likes Given: 1736

Default

That is an 1886 Winchester Short rifle not a carbine. The magazine cap has a single small screw that holds the cap from 6 oclock. These screws have a special thread which is curious to Winchester firearms only.

How is the bore?

__________________
nitestalker is offline  
Vikingdad Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 05:39 PM   #8
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 10,203
Liked 6559 Times on 3655 Posts
Likes Given: 6202

Default

I use a 385 cast GC bullet in my 1895 Marlin. A light charge of unique for light plinking loads, and a HEAVY charge of H322 or H3031 for hunting. As Nitestalker said, past 1500 FPS, it hurts!

locutus is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #9
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 14,534
Liked 8817 Times on 5100 Posts
Likes Given: 11496

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
That is an 1886 Winchester Short rifle not a carbine. The magazine cap has a single small screw that holds the cap from 6 oclock. These screws have a special thread which is curious to Winchester firearms only.

How is the bore?
I was calling it a carbine because of the barrel length, but I guess short rifle would be more accurate given the weight. I will be certain not to damage or lose the magazine cap screw! There is already a screw missing on the upper tang so I need to find one of those.

The bore is dirty (dust and cat hair) but looks like there is no pitting or rust. I will know more when the gunsmith gets done with it.
__________________
Vikingdad is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 08:12 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Edge of Darkness
Posts: 6,495
Liked 4792 Times on 2680 Posts
Likes Given: 1736

Default

The Short rifle and Mdl 86 Take Down were produced for hunters who travled. Most of the travel then was by rail road. The era of Big Game hunting and the close of the American Frontier in 1898 brought an end to many heavy caliber rifles. The Mdl. of 1886 was reduced in size and caliber and became the popular Winchester Mdl. 1892 chambered in pistol Ctgs. The Mdl. of 1892 the popular movie cowboy carbine was really too late for much Frontier Action. The NDN wars were over and most horse back out laws were only legends.

__________________
nitestalker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Built A reloading bench and i am reloading now CAR Ammunition & Reloading 19 08-03-2012 05:55 AM
Should our government be the only ones allowed to have this? opaww Legal and Activism 11 07-20-2012 10:03 PM
Government GPS Tracking Vikingdad Politics, Religion and Controversy 0 11-08-2011 08:32 PM
45-70 Government 250 GR MONOFLEX Marlin General Rifle Discussion 1 01-22-2011 06:06 PM
say what you want about our government... roosterjuicer The Club House 7 04-09-2009 12:32 AM