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-   -   "Project Argentine" (7.65 cases from .30-06) (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/project-argentine-7-65-cases-30-06-a-104699/)

Professor 03-04-2014 12:44 AM

"Project Argentine" (7.65 cases from .30-06)
 
While I'm new to reloading, I'm FASCINATED by the idea of making my own brass. As it is, the only brass I've found is made by Norma, more than $1.50 EACH case, and on back order. For the record, I don't reload to save money (actually, I'm spending lots of money ..LOL) I'm doing it for the joy of it. Since I stopped playing with old cars, reloading helps scratch my "mechanical itch". I've only reloaded a few thousand pistol rounds and just started making my first bottleneck (.223) rounds. I enjoy the learning curve.
I've thought about startiing a thread entitled "Project Argentine" where I could share the experience of making brass by "conversion" of brass of another caliber. my idea is to write the thread fom the perspective of a new reloader and that perhaps it (the thread) could serve as resource to other newbies or even to more experienced reloaders who are "converting" cases for the first time. I did a search of this Forum and did not find much info...of course I may have done a poor job of searching. I'm hoping there are others on the Forum (read more experienced) who might be willing to help and guide me in this endeavor.

So.....I shall begin my search for knowledge. I'm looking to convert .30-06 cases into 7.65 Agentine Mauser (also known as 7.65 Belgian Mauser or 7.65 x 53). Can anyone direct me to websites, articles, books I could read, etc so that I may learn how it is done....and then do it? Thanks for any help.

Professor 03-04-2014 01:52 AM

Just for an example, I found this on the web (it refers to converrtring .30-06 to 8 MM Mauser), tho I'm not sure it's a good idea.....

(Quote): "1. Trim 63mm long .30-06 case to 57mm.
2. Load with LR primer, about 10-15 grains of 2400 or similar powder and seat a paper wad with a wax seal.
3. Fireform in 8x57 Mauser chamber.
4. Check for cracked necks and reload as if it were regular ammo. (I've expanded .308 cases up to .45 in this manner without cracking.)

This will save you from fighting the neck around an 8mm expander ball, anyway." (end of quote)

robocop10mm 03-04-2014 02:18 AM

Someone is going about it all wrong. I do not believe you can actualy chamber a .30-06 case in an 8mm Mauser chamber. It is a little more difficult than that.

I make 8mm from .270 cases.

Clean cases to remove major residue
Anneal case necks
Polish cases
Neck up gradually using 7mm expander-.308 expander
Full length size using 8mm die
Trim to 57mm using Dremel cut off wheel
Finish trim to length
Load and shoot.

Fireforming will help accuracy, but uses valuable resources and time. I am shooting an old Turk Mauser and is not all that accurate to begin with. Cases will be fireformed when I shoot the first load through them.

The annealing is the key aspect (IMHO). Stand the empty cases in a pie pan with about 1/2" of water. Use a propane torch to heat the neck/shoulder area to a glowing red heat. Try to heat the entire circumference evenly. Tip the case over in the water. This will soften the neck area and keep the base hard. You will get far fewer split necks this way.

You may want to outside turn the necks of the finished product as the brass will be a bit too thick. You may find (as I did) the old chamber is worn enough to tolerate the thick neck with out creating an over pressure isue

locutus 03-04-2014 10:57 PM

Buy "The Home Guide To Cartridge Conversions" by George Nonte.

Amazon.com has a few for around $10

It will answer every question you can think of, and several hundred that you didn't ask!:D

Professor 03-05-2014 10:06 PM

I am still gathering info on my project. Locutus was kind enough to PM me with some good advice. With his permission, I am posting it:

"You might tru Barnes and Noble and look for the Lyman Reloading Manual, ABCs of Reloading, Lymanb cast bullet handbook etc.

.30-06 to 7.65 is fairly straightforward.

Get the brass really, really clean, resized and decapped in a .30-06 sizing die.

Lube it with your fingers and something like Imperial sizing die wax, or RCBS case lube. (NOT the spray.)

Put the 7.65 die in and screw it down to barely touch the shellholder. SLOWLY run the case all the way into the die. This will shorten it and lengthen the neck.

If you use the RCBS case forming die, you can cut the excess off with a hacksaw at this stage. If you use a regular sizing die, the case must be shortened with a trimmer. (hint. trimmer=lotsa work)

At this point, I like to outside turn the case neck with a turning tool ro thin it back down to normal diameter.

Do one case, then run it into a case gauge or chamber it in your rifle to see if it fits. If all is well at this point, modify all the others you plan on modifying.

Now you anneal the necks to the middle of the shoulder. This is an important step.

When you reach this point, you just reload normally. This sounds complicated, but it really isn't. You just can't skip any steps.

When working up loads with any case formed from another caliber, go slowly, since these cases may be a little thicker and heavier than factory 7.65.

Hope this helps. " This pretty much echoes what I have been able to find here and there on the web (bits and pieces). The only confusion I find is that there are different opinions on when to anneal the case. One school believes annealing should come before re-forming (to make the brass easier to work with during the case forming process) and the other school suggests annealing AFTER caseforming (to get rid of the work hardening which results from re-forming the case). Some people have even suggested annealing it twice (for the two reasons listed). I'm still not sure what I'll do here.

Also mentioned in this advice is the RCBS ".30-06 to 7.65 case forming die. It is found on the Midway site here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695...06-springfield

To me, this is the way to go. The top of the die is hardened to resist a hand file and seems to be the best way to re-form the case and cut/file to length at the same time. Of course as luck would have it, it's on backorder...and with the demand for reloading supplies being so high right now (and an obscure Argentine caliber die not being so high) it may take some time before I can get one. Figures...

Also, I am getting two different suggestions on bullet diameter (.311 and .312). Aside from slugging the bore, does anyone know? Thanks for all the help.

locutus 03-05-2014 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1523006)
I am still gathering info on my project. Locutus was kind enough to PM me with some good advice. With his permission, I am posting it:

"You might tru Barnes and Noble and look for the Lyman Reloading Manual, ABCs of Reloading, Lymanb cast bullet handbook etc.

.30-06 to 7.65 is fairly straightforward.

Get the brass really, really clean, resized and decapped in a .30-06 sizing die.

Lube it with your fingers and something like Imperial sizing die wax, or RCBS case lube. (NOT the spray.)

Put the 7.65 die in and screw it down to barely touch the shellholder. SLOWLY run the case all the way into the die. This will shorten it and lengthen the neck.

If you use the RCBS case forming die, you can cut the excess off with a hacksaw at this stage. If you use a regular sizing die, the case must be shortened with a trimmer. (hint. trimmer=lotsa work)

At this point, I like to outside turn the case neck with a turning tool ro thin it back down to normal diameter.

Do one case, then run it into a case gauge or chamber it in your rifle to see if it fits. If all is well at this point, modify all the others you plan on modifying.

Now you anneal the necks to the middle of the shoulder. This is an important step.

When you reach this point, you just reload normally. This sounds complicated, but it really isn't. You just can't skip any steps.

When working up loads with any case formed from another caliber, go slowly, since these cases may be a little thicker and heavier than factory 7.65.

Hope this helps. " This pretty much echoes what I have been able to find here and there on the web (bits and pieces). The only confusion I find is that there are different opinions on when to anneal the case. One school believes annealing should come before re-forming (to make the brass easier to work with during the case forming process) and the other school suggests annealing AFTER caseforming (to get rid of the work hardening which results from re-forming the case). Some people have even suggested annealing it twice (for the two reasons listed). I'm still not sure what I'll do here.

Also mentioned in this advice is the RCBS ".30-06 to 7.65 case forming die. It is found on the Midway site here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695...06-springfield

To me, this is the way to go. The top of the die is hardened to resist a hand file and seems to be the best way to re-form the case and cut/file to length at the same time. Of course as luck would have it, it's on backorder...and with the demand for reloading supplies being so high right now (and an obscure Argentine caliber die not being so high) it may take some time before I can get one. Figures...

Also, I am getting two different suggestions on bullet diameter (.311 and .312). Aside from slugging the bore, does anyone know? Thanks for all the help.

The 7.65 Should work well with wither .311 or .312 if the bore is in good condition. I've had good results with the Hornady .311, 174 grain bullets made for the .303 British. If you decide to cast lead bullets, I'd use .313 diameter.

locutus 03-07-2014 10:41 PM

Just for FYI, With .30-06 brass you can easily make:
.400 Whelen.
375 Whelen
.35 Whelen
8MM-06 Mauser
7MM-06 Mauser
.280 Remington
.260 Remington
.308
25-08
6.5-08
.338-06
.270
6.5 06
.25-06
6MM-06
.257 Roberts,
6mm Remington
.308
.45 ACP

There are many others you can make, such a ,22-250, .22-06 but they require 2 stage or even 3 stage conversion dies.

Trez 03-08-2014 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locutus (Post 1524951)
Just for FYI, With .30-06 brass you can easily make:
.400 Whelen.
375 Whelen
.35 Whelen
8MM-06 Mauser
7MM-06 Mauser
.280 Remington
.260 Remington
.308
25-08
6.5-08
.338-06
.270
6.5 06
.25-06
6MM-06
.257 Roberts,
6mm Remington
.308
.45 ACP

There are many others you can make, such a ,22-250, .22-06 but they require 2 stage or even 3 stage conversion dies.


.... and 7.7 Japanese! :p


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