Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gear & Accessories > Ammunition & Reloading > Need help with common ammo types

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2014, 09:31 PM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 3
Likes Given: 2

Default

Thanks that was very helpful

About game logic, well nearly no game uses ammo aside from a simple number that is displayed, but for suppressors you are totally right.
The problem is that its a game and it has to be balanced. Usually the silencer makes you very hard to spot in games, and it would be very overpowered if it didn't have a big downside using it.
We cannot just simply put a Remington 870 aside a AA 12 and tweak them to real life values, it would be ridiculously imbalanced as other example.

I will do my best improving over the old misconceptions, but theres no way to just make it like in real life and everyone is happy.

So hollow to not loose speed I see. I throught I read that the soft point are slower and expand, so they not actually pierce a target.
They also have a flat nose, so they should have less aerodynamic abilities
Are you calling both, the soft and hollow as hollow right now, or did you ignore the soft-point ? It feels like you wrote about both under the same name
"Hollowpoint are civilian use only" - That should be soft point right with the flat end right ?

About the tungsten sabot, the 7.62x51mm M948 SLAP or M993 are for firearms and use sabot, from what I read is that they are very fast (1.200 meter/s) and have very good penetration by working like the tank Sabot rounds just in small, seem to be specific against metal surfaces.

Edit: Ah you found it aswell haha, well that kind of story, c3shooter is the kind that makes it all so interesting, isnt it ?
Atleast for me, all this experimental stuff from the past, things that never made it into production or old war tests, thats gold

Raufus sounds interesting, ill keep that in mind. Sounds a bit like the tank HEAT projectiles.

Frangible and duplex sound promising aswell, ill look them up

Thanks guys that helped a lot!

Edit: One last unclarity, the hollow rounds (not the soft cap ones), how is it with their penetration ? If you want to hit a target behind a plate that a normal FMJ bullet would pierce, would it
expand at the plate already, or would it work on the target behind ?

__________________

Last edited by Sunofabeach; 02-25-2014 at 10:25 PM.
Sunofabeach is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2014, 12:03 AM   #12
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 16,266
Liked 4518 Times on 2375 Posts
Likes Given: 259

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunofabeach View Post
Thanks that was very helpful

About game logic, well nearly no game uses ammo aside from a simple number that is displayed, but for suppressors you are totally right.
The problem is that its a game and it has to be balanced. Usually the silencer makes you very hard to spot in games, and it would be very overpowered if it didn't have a big downside using it.
We cannot just simply put a Remington 870 aside a AA 12 and tweak them to real life values, it would be ridiculously imbalanced as other example.

I will do my best improving over the old misconceptions, but theres no way to just make it like in real life and everyone is happy.

So hollow to not loose speed I see. I throught I read that the soft point are slower and expand, so they not actually pierce a target.
They also have a flat nose, so they should have less aerodynamic abilities
Are you calling both, the soft and hollow as hollow right now, or did you ignore the soft-point ? It feels like you wrote about both under the same name
"Hollowpoint are civilian use only" - That should be soft point right with the flat end right ?

About the tungsten sabot, the 7.62x51mm M948 SLAP or M993 are for firearms and use sabot, from what I read is that they are very fast (1.200 meter/s) and have very good penetration by working like the tank Sabot rounds just in small, seem to be specific against metal surfaces.

Edit: Ah you found it aswell haha, well that kind of story, c3shooter is the kind that makes it all so interesting, isnt it ?
Atleast for me, all this experimental stuff from the past, things that never made it into production or old war tests, thats gold

Raufus sounds interesting, ill keep that in mind. Sounds a bit like the tank HEAT projectiles.

Frangible and duplex sound promising aswell, ill look them up

Thanks guys that helped a lot!

Edit: One last unclarity, the hollow rounds (not the soft cap ones), how is it with their penetration ? If you want to hit a target behind a plate that a normal FMJ bullet would pierce, would it
expand at the plate already, or would it work on the target behind ?
With suppressors there is no downside to them other than they are clumsy on full size firearms. I know I own two. Not something your going to use fast at all, as in moving from target to target. On shorter rifles like subguns or short barrel rifles you get the speed back but suffer from greatly decreased range and power due to the shorter rifle barrel.

Suppressed firearms aren't quiet they are about the same noise level as putting in ear plugs. If you want true suppressed function then you have to use subsonic rounds which brings rifle rounds down to power factor of a 45acp. You can't run a ar15/m16 completely suprressed as the bullet will become unstable at about 100 yards and the gun won't cycle. The reason you use a suppressor on something like a ak47 m16 fn scar17 is to prevent you from blowing your hearing out when firing indoors.

I would strongly suggest experiencing a suppressed firearm in real life. Its not what you think at all. Ingame I would say it would be accurate to cut sound by half or so eliminating it completely isn't realistic. Some guns designed to use subsonics are limited to pistol power levels. To get to subsonic levels the round cannot exceed about 1000fps.

How I would design would be to slow down the yaw rate for running suppressed on full size weapons and decreasing longer ranged power on all short barreled firearms. Somethings like the honey badger and mp5sd were designed to run suppressed and suffer no I'll effects from it. Those would be firearms I would design as a endgame weapon due to their powerful nature in games.

I listed hp as civvy but included it in sniper military roles because our snipers switched from fmj boat tail to hp boat tail because of the better ballistic co-efficient. They get around that idiotic prohibition on hp ammo in war by calling them enhanced performance rounds... verbal semantics.

Military doesn't use softpoints those are hunting rounds and offer excellent performance on soft targets. They have similar ballistic performance to fmj as in retaining velocity downrange. Both hp and softpoint ammo has difficulty on armored targets and perform poorly in such apps.
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
.17hmr ammo types ss33204 .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 10 11-15-2012 03:21 PM
Ammo types SmithKid308 General Shotgun Discussion 3 07-28-2011 10:53 PM
Different Types Of Ammo TexasRed Ammunition & Reloading 11 03-23-2011 02:44 PM
Types of .22 ammo phoinixbird .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 11 04-16-2010 12:14 AM
Can You Combine 2 Types of Ammo in 1 Mag? supersonic Glock Forum 4 06-21-2007 10:15 PM