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-   -   Neck Separation??? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/neck-separation-97398/)

gwtx 09-21-2013 03:36 AM

Neck Separation???
 
2 Attachment(s)
I looked through about 8 or 10 cases that I had shot in my 22-250 a few days ago, and found one the cases neck had separated. These were mixed brass that had been reloaded 2 or 3 times. The one that separated was remington. I am also noticing my case necks are "blackened" more than normal. The rifle is a Stevens 200 with less than 250 rounds thru it. Loading the standard H380 38.0gr load, pushing a 55gr sierra hpbt seated to book specs. Nothing out of the ordinary. I've only been reloading a few years, and haven't seen this anywhere before. Bad brass ?, bad chamber throat or ??
Help appreciated, Gary

JonM 09-21-2013 03:43 AM

the blackened necks are a sure sign of work hardening and time to anneal the brass before case neck cracks or seperation occurs.

remington brass is notoriously hard and should be annealed from the start. remington doesnt anneal their brass when producing new cases.

mseric 09-21-2013 09:08 AM

You "blackened" necks are most likely caused by your weak load. Yes, I know Sierra lists 38gr as Max, Hodgdon list it as a "Start" charge, as does Speer.

You separated neck acts more like a piece of defective brass than an annealing problem. All factory brass is annealed during the manufacturing process, some as many as 6 times during different stages, even Remington.

Work hardened brass will usually show signs at the bench when sizing and seating. When work hardened brass does fail it is usually a vertical "split", not a horizontal separation.

Also 380 is notorious for poor ignition with standard primers, it is one of the "ball" powders that gets the Mag Primer nod for complete burn.

It is also extremely temp sensitive, what was the temp when you fired these?

Chainfire 09-21-2013 11:54 AM

I opened this thread thinking it was about Saddam Hussein.

mountainman13 09-21-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 1378829)
the blackened necks are a sure sign of work hardening and time to anneal the brass before case neck cracks or seperation occurs.

remington brass is notoriously hard and should be annealed from the start. remington doesnt anneal their brass when producing new cases.

Dead on. Over worked brass.

Shade 09-21-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mseric (Post 1378908)
You "blackened" necks are most likely caused by your weak load. Yes, I know Sierra lists 38gr as Max, Hodgdon list it as a "Start" charge, as does Speer.

You separated neck acts more like a piece of defective brass than an annealing problem. All factory brass is annealed during the manufacturing process, some as many as 6 times during different stages, even Remington.

Work hardened brass will usually show signs at the bench when sizing and seating. When work hardened brass does fail it is usually a vertical "split", not a horizontal separation.

Also 380 is notorious for poor ignition with standard primers, it is one of the "ball" powders that gets the Mag Primer nod for complete burn.

It is also extremely temp sensitive, what was the temp when you fired these?

My assessment is overworked brass, or defective brass. Also the severe
bottle neck on the brass like my 7mm Rem Mag are more susceptible to
failure because by the design of the case it gets worked more.

gwtx 09-21-2013 02:39 PM

Thanks to all responders.
I kinda suspected the weak load, cause the necks were getting blackened from the first firing. This was new unprimed brass.
The load shoots very good from the Stevens,,but, so does everything I've put through it. I loaded up to 40.0gr in steps with no improvement in groups, so I stayed with Mr. H's favorite load. I'll clean up the necks, and go back to a little higher pressure load to see if that helps reduce or eliminate the black necks. Any suggestions for a better brand of brass? The remmy stuff sure looks thin. I haven't weighed it, but think I will. I have some hornady ammo I bought when I bought the rifle. I shot about 9 rounds of it, and saved the rest. I'll weigh and compare. I'm not set up for annealing, havn't had the need to, but as expensive and hard to find as brass is, I guess I need to now. Thanks again, I appreciate the sharing of knowledge here on the site. Gary

mseric 09-21-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Any suggestions for a better brand of brass?
I have less issues with Rem brass than I do with Win brass if that means anything.

If you want the best and feel like spending some $$ look into Lapua brass, it's the best but is isn't cheap. For your 22-250 you are looking at about a buck a piece.

Norma is also very good, again a little under a buck a piece.

Annealing is a very inexpensive process. All it takes is a BernzOmatic torch and a pan of water.

Shade 09-21-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwtx (Post 1379051)
Thanks to all responders.
I kinda suspected the weak load, cause the necks were getting blackened from the first firing. This was new unprimed brass.
The load shoots very good from the Stevens,,but, so does everything I've put through it. I loaded up to 40.0gr in steps with no improvement in groups, so I stayed with Mr. H's favorite load. I'll clean up the necks, and go back to a little higher pressure load to see if that helps reduce or eliminate the black necks. Any suggestions for a better brand of brass? The remmy stuff sure looks thin. I haven't weighed it, but think I will. I have some hornady ammo I bought when I bought the rifle. I shot about 9 rounds of it, and saved the rest. I'll weigh and compare. I'm not set up for annealing, havn't had the need to, but as expensive and hard to find as brass is, I guess I need to now. Thanks again, I appreciate the sharing of knowledge here on the site. Gary

Neck sizing the brass will minimize work hardening but if you shoot out of
more than one gun then you will have to segregate the brass, if you neck size.

I neck size for all of my bolt guns, mainly for accuracy, my semi's get full
length sizing, even though I have tested neck sized ammo with no issues,
I did not see as much improve with accuracy as with the bolt guns.

Olin is the brass supplier to all the domestic plants, Olin supplies the brass
in sheet/strip or cup form the individual plants form the case. But they all
manufacture to SAAMI specifications; I think that the brand differences
between plant are sometimes over-stated, I am not saying they don't exist,
just over-stated.

Foreign brass is a different story.

kaido 09-21-2013 05:51 PM

So.....just to make sure I read this right, a weak load with cause the neck to burn/blacken? I always thought it was higher loads or improper sizing that did this?


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