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Old 08-21-2014, 03:03 AM   #21
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Someone gave me some of the double ball 357 loads and they were marked LE. There is nothing light about the 357 load. The balls will hit about 1" apart with the 2nd ball being higher and slightly right. Velocity will depend on barrel length but it is not a light load. I will stick with the 125 or 158 grain loads though.
Mine are experimental handloads. There is considerably less case volume with the round balls in the case. So as not to run into high pressures, I kept them with a small charge to start.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:31 AM   #22
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131 ft lbs. About in the .22 LR category.

Hey! Maybe that's it! Everyone always talks about what a DEADLY round the .22 LR is.....

Another reason the 22 LR is deadly is most 22 LR firearms are accurate. I don't see how two balls on a chain are considered accurate. We got past this ball and chain issue in the middle ages.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:57 AM   #23
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The idea for this is that you are more likely to ht a target with the 14" spread of four projectiles. However, penetration is as important as accuracy for the round to stop the perpetrator. Therefore, as Deathkricket pointed out, the reduced weight of each fragment would reduce penetration and therefore effectiveness. Also, no one has addressed the wire during terminal ballistics. Unlike Hollywood, the wire would probably not cut through clothing, more likely choosing to break or possibly drag the other fragments into a wound made by the first fragment to penetrate. The spread of 14" is much farther apart than any group I've shot at 25 or 50 yards, and this includes shotgun rounds. A 14" spread of a three-shot .45 group would be considered a failure in a standard self-defense course, so why would we consider a round spreading this far a success?

The answer to an unasked question is a good classification of this round, Robocop. Stay away from this for self defense. Only purchase if you want the novelty of shooting paper targets and watching them get wire-sliced to death in one blow.

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Old 08-31-2014, 01:50 AM   #24
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I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I do think there are merits of this round that folks may be missing. First off, NO it is not an end all beat all round to do service for everything else out there and second: It's a compromise as are many a thing. Guarantee a hit at the expense of a wider than single bullet would provide. Yet for a woman or man that chooses to not practice a bunch and can only hit the barn if they're in it and the doors are closed, it may have some use. Think, why do most "experts" in the field suggest a shotgun for home defense? It's because it is much easier to hit something than with a single bullet and hit nothing at all. Same mentality as having an auto with a seventeen round magazine partnered with two spare magazines instead of a more powerful revolver round, but only have six from the start.

I currently own a Rossi Circuit Judge in 45/410 for the house. Now do I load it with birdshot? No. With slugs? Again No. It's loaded with Winchester's three inch magnum PDX rounds that have four bore sized pellets or disks and a stack of three BB's in-between each solid pellet or disk. That makes for 13 pieces of lead coming out the end of the barrel in a fairly tight pattern. But again that's in house distances. Move it out further (and I probably should be running instead of shooting) and the spread gets awful. I'm currently working on a lengthened 45LC round that takes the entire cylinder length into account (Living in California and all). When the rolled crimp opens up, the empty case is just a hair away from the end of the cylinder and out of the muzzle comes three disks and two frangible cookies that divide in air and certainly if they contact anything, into multiple pieces. Not the Winchester load and I don't use any strings either.

But just as the original "chain shot or bolo rounds" of history's past, they all had a purpose. Originally it was to damage or sever the masts and rigging of the opposing ship and I imagine that it did so quite effectively? So these rounds might not be your cup of tea, but I see that they could quite possibly fill a niche that other rounds could not. Give a novice a shotgun and have them shoot at a man sized target and make sure to tell them to get all of the pellets into the target and have no misses? It cannot be done. Yet with these rounds it can be done as seen in the various video's. Now it may be just the one third that hits the primary target, but the other two are stopped in flight so no further damage can be done to bystanders. This reminds me of my former department.

We had used the Mini-14 and Smith and Wesson model 67 for the academy to protect a Nuclear Power Plant. Then some operators thought, what about errant rounds? Wouldn't they pose a risk to all of our piping and equipment? So it was decided that the .223 had to stay out of the plant. Go ahead and shoot bad guys in the bushes, but just not inside the building. Our department didn't like that idea so something had to be done with the inside of the building.

Doing business with the NRC is a funny proposition indeed. You see, it's the plant and its employees that make up the rules that the NRC make us follow. Weird I know. Well the range-master said that the force's employees could hit a man sized target at fifteen yards keeping half of the payload inside the target itself. So easy, you have a load with 12 pellets in it, there had better be 6 holes in the paper bad guy. Well No one passed the first time through. The second time through only a few passed. And finally after the third time through a few more passed, but there was still over half the force that could not produce the results that were now carved in stone with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This was after cases of ammunition and two weeks of solid training with not only the weapon (Remington 870), but the ammunition as well (Winchester 2.5" double ought buck with 12 pellets I think?). With still a majority of the officers unable to meet the qualifications, the range-master and upper bosses changed the requirements to allow only three hits from twelve to pass. Oh yeah if you can spread the BS you are sometimes allowed to change the rules mid-stream and that is what was done. Smithy.

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