Military re-thinks ammo
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Military re-thinks ammo


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Old 08-11-2015, 09:41 PM   #1
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Default Military re-thinks ammo

They are considering hollow points.

http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2015/08/11/rethinking_hollow_point_ammunition_108345.html
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:41 AM   #2
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bad idea except in law enforcement purposes. in war penetration is everything. you want bullets to go through things not deform on impact.

hollowpoints perform poorly on barriers
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:17 AM   #3
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Probably a good idea for handguns. Barrier penetration is not a great job to use a handgun for to begin with.

Many body armor options already stop FMJ handgun rounds. Using some of the more modern bonded jacket designs can still get through light cover and vehicle doors and glass better than older generation stuff. A handgun is still not ideal though.

For rifles I'd go for options. Penetrator rounds mixed with HP or soft points.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:27 AM   #4
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Nuts. Nobody cares whether the U.S. signed the Hague Protocol. It has survived two World Wars. Hitler did not dare break it. Doing it now would be a political nightmare.

I don't know who is thinking what, this ain't gonna happen.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:34 PM   #5
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Nuts. Nobody cares whether the U.S. signed the Hague Protocol. It has survived two World Wars. Hitler did not dare break it. Doing it now would be a political nightmare.

I don't know who is thinking what, this ain't gonna happen.

There are ways around it.

Back in 1974, when the Russians type accepted their new Kalashnikov as the AK-74, the bullets were manufactured with a thin jacket and an AIRSPACE in the nose of the bullet.

On impact, the thin jacket ruptured into the hollow airspace and performed exactly like a hollowpoint.

7N6 ammunition uses a steel penetrator, but retains the airspace. Our M855 would work the same way if we added the small airspace and thinned the nose section of the jacket.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:58 PM   #6
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There are ways around it.

Back in 1974, when the Russians type accepted their new Kalashnikov as the AK-74, the bullets were manufactured with a thin jacket and an AIRSPACE in the nose of the bullet.

On impact, the thin jacket ruptured into the hollow airspace and performed exactly like a hollowpoint.

7N6 ammunition uses a steel penetrator, but retains the airspace. Our M855 would work the same way if we added the small airspace and thinned the nose section of the jacket.
The Afgans called this ammo the "poison bullet". NASTY effects.
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Old 08-12-2015, 04:55 PM   #7
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If they adopt this then others will adopt it and then explosive bullets, possibly even proximity fused and poisoned bullets or contaigeo poisoned bullets. Once released in a body or even proximity, they could destroy whole regions.
Time for the Admnistration to start observing our Laws and morals.

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Old 08-12-2015, 05:23 PM   #8
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The Afgans called this ammo the "poison bullet". NASTY effects.
They did, most likely because of the high incidence of wound infections. That most likely because the 5.45 did not exit at the distances where the 7.62 did. Most Mujaheddeen weren't educated about the germs and sanitation, and thought the bullets were poisoned.

There is no evidence that the 5.45 is much worse than te 5.56 NATO, but the stories keep circulating. Such stories have been and remain part of the perpetual "psych warfare", conducted by the GRU to soften the West.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:24 PM   #9
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They did, most likely because of the high incidence of wound infections. That most likely because the 5.45 did not exit at the distances where the 7.62 did. Most Mujaheddeen weren't educated about the germs and sanitation, and thought the bullets were poisoned.

There is no evidence that the 5.45 is much worse than te 5.56 NATO, but the stories keep circulating. Such stories have been and remain part of the perpetual "psych warfare", conducted by the GRU to soften the West.
Actually the original M193 ball was superior to the 5.45X39. We got around the Hague Convention by using minimal stability with the slow twist, and a deep cannelure causing the bullet to break into two pieces at the cannelure and tumble.

The M855 has less actual wounding power due to the faster twists used making them more stable.

M193 was designed for short range wounding power on soft targets. M855 was designed for penetration on harder targets
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Old 08-16-2015, 03:26 AM   #10
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those )*^^** a-holes in the Hague didnt seem to mind when the enemy was using RPGS on our ground troops. For those of you who are civilians, an RPG is a anti tank weapon!!
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