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Old 10-06-2012, 03:01 PM   #21
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So doing this jug test, I assume I'd stand the standard 10ft from target when firing. Should I place something solid behind to catch in case it goes straight through, or just a second jug good enough?
10 feet is okay., And ALWAYS have a safe backstop.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:12 PM   #22
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Alright, I tested, at ten feet, two Hollow Point rounds (all items stacked touching):

The first missed the juggs slightly high, even skimmed caps of milk jugs, then through a subwoofer box made of MDF and the light metal door of an old first aid wall hung kit. After that it hit the back side of the kit, making a dent (very close to going through) and dropped in a pill pocket. No no expansion at all.

The second went into the jugs, hit the sub box at the bottom edge where the base board meets a sidewall, and fell back in the second jug. Again, no expansion. Now I'm not sure why it stopped so much shorter. I'd like to credit it to the water, but it may be because the two layers of MDF somehow was too hard a surface. Not sure.

Next time, testing with 4 jugs each and will try both hollow point and FMJ. Just to see the difference.

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:55 PM   #23
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I wonder if soaking phonebooks would achieve same result. Or maybe just pop bottles filled with water. I just dont drink enuf milk for the amount of testing I want to do.

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Old 10-29-2012, 01:42 AM   #24
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Just shoot into the neighbors dog.

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Old 10-29-2012, 01:53 AM   #25
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Just shoot into the neighbors dog.
I'd actually have no problems with that, but the neighbors might, and while I could care leas about them or their children, it's the involvement of the liberal law that would bring enough bother into my life that it just wouldn't be worth the headache and possible repercussions.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:59 AM   #26
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So I've got a 9mm two shot derringer I use as a backup carry piece. I've been told that, due to the short barrel length, there wouldn't be enough velocity to cause an HP to expand from such a handgun.

My main concern, when considering defensive firearms, is safety. Not for myself, but, rather, for those around and in possible danger of an over-penetrating round. So I've started carrying lower calibers, but I do see the possibility of a need, in a unique occasion, in which some hopped up druggie might require a more persuasive nudge, thus the backup.

My question is, if the velocity from my derringer is so much less, should I even bother worrying about over-penetration? Or how can I test this myself without paying a crazy price for balistic gel? Not sure what it costs, but guessing it's up there.

Also, isn't the point of an HP to reduce chance of over-penetration? Is what causes the round to open the resistence received from its coursing through the air or the contact with its target? If it's the air, then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the impact with a body too could create that necessary resistence, allowing it to open and still serve its purpose, regardless of barrel length and/or velocity? If not then I understand.

I'll fully admit it, I'm very inexperienced and unknowledgable when it comes to balistics and all this, hence my being here. How I'e come to my theory above is simply through a novices attempt at logical thinking. Hahaha

Speak some knowledge at me; take me to school fellas!!!

Thanks inadvance!
Lower velocity = less expansion. Less expansion = less resistance in the target. Less resistance = more penetration.

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I wonder if soaking phonebooks would achieve same result. Or maybe just pop bottles filled with water. I just dont drink enuf milk for the amount of testing I want to do.
Phonebooks and water jugs have been the poor man's testing medium for years, and while they can give you an idea of how different velocities will affect the bullet they can not accurately represent how a particular load will behave inside the body. Soaked phonebooks are simply too inconsistent piece to piece, and there is a much higher hydrostatic effect in simple water. You will find that bullets will expand and even fragment at much lower velocities than they would in flesh.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:35 AM   #27
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Lower velocity = less expansion. Less expansion = less resistance in the target. Less resistance = more penetration.

Phonebooks and water jugs have been the poor man's testing medium for years, and while they can give you an idea of how different velocities will affect the bullet they can not accurately represent how a particular load will behave inside the body. Soaked phonebooks are simply too inconsistent piece to piece, and there is a much higher hydrostatic effect in simple water. You will find that bullets will expand and even fragment at much lower velocities than they would in flesh.
I was thinking more like phone books stacked with milk jugs. Maybe two jugs and one book per test, book being first or between the jugs. Perhaps a third jug would be needed, hoping not. I've got my coworkers bringing me theirs, only one cares enough to do so regularly. Got four with two more coming. Haaha

Been thinking about going to local recycle plant and dumpster diving thru the plastic bins to get enough to do some real testing. LOL! Oh well, its winter now, no shooting for a few months anyway, I'll just save up.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:49 AM   #28
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Like I said, both can show you how different velocities will affect the same bullet type, but it will not accurately represent how that load will behave in flesh.

They can make for fun experiments, and you can get a roundabout guessable idea of how they will act in flesh. But that is about it.

If you have the funds, you can buy gel kits online. They aren't perfect, but do give a much more accurate idea of what happens in the body.

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Old 10-29-2012, 02:54 AM   #29
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I wonder if soaking phonebooks would achieve same result. Or maybe just pop bottles filled with water. I just dont drink enuf milk for the amount of testing I want to do.
Soaked newsprint for 24 hours is also a good medium for resembling flesh if you can't afford Gelatin.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:55 AM   #30
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........... Oh well, its winter now, no shooting for a few months anyway, I'll just save up.
Why would a little bit of cold and snow stop anyone from having fun, and shooting?
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