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-   -   Hollow Tips? Misinformed? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/hollow-tips-misinformed-11666/)

The Godfather 03-08-2009 11:15 PM

Hollow Tips? Misinformed?
 
im aware of hollow points and there variants... but hollow tips? as in a hollow "tip" bullet that will exit a target completely off course from where it entered, such as entering the chest and exiting from the lower abdomen... :confused:

i guess the logic in this is that with a "hollow tip", the bullet changes course upon contact of material (such as flesh/bone) because the lack mass in the front of the bullet allows the rear weight of the bullet to thrust it into another direction.

but does such a bullet exist or is it just urban legend? cant seem to find anything about them online..

matt g 03-09-2009 12:32 AM

Soviet Bloc small arms rounds frequently had air pockets at the tips of the jackets. In addition to the steel core of the bullet, the bullet would yaw upon impact with flesh more than normal.

The most common Soviet Bloc sized ammo is 5.45x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R.

BILLYBOB44 03-09-2009 12:34 AM

Mostly urban legend
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Godfather (Post 79804)
im aware of hollow points and there variants... but hollow tips? as in a hollow "tip" bullet that will exit a target completely off course from where it entered, such as entering the chest and exiting from the lower abdomen... :confused:

i guess the logic in this is that with a "hollow tip", the bullet changes course upon contact of material (such as flesh/bone) because the lack mass in the front of the bullet allows the rear weight of the bullet to thrust it into another direction.

but does such a bullet exist or is it just urban legend? cant seem to find anything about them online..

Hollow Tips-just another word for hollow points. A 5.56mm 55gr. FMJ bullet will usually tumble inside, after body strike, and may exit at a distant location of said body. If you handload+shoot .38spl., you can seat a 148gr. HBWC backwards (hollow end out) and do some massive tissue damage at close range-though their not very accurate. The soft swaged hollow base will flatten and then tumble. Not much penetration-not a defense load of choice.:eek:

robocop10mm 03-09-2009 01:51 AM

A hollow point pistol bullet is designed to expand in fluid and leave a larger wound track and expend a large percentage of its energy in the target.

Most hollow point rifle ammo exists to set the center of gravity back to allow it to be more stable. I do not know of any ammunition that was designed to turn and exit in a different area. When that does occur it is generally because the bullet struck a bone and "sort of" ricocheted.

dragunovsks 03-10-2009 04:13 AM

I've heard alot about the 5.56mm round's ability to tumble when it hits a flesh and bone target. I heard that from my dad who spent 21 years in the Indiana National Guard and also a Marine buddy of mine said the same thing.

I've never heard that hollow points were made so that it shifts the center of gravity back or that they help the bullet yaw when it hits a target. The only advantage of hollow points that I know of is to transfer as much as the projectiles energy as possible into the target.

robocop10mm 03-10-2009 11:19 AM

This is why many "match" rifle bullets are HP's. It is not to make it deliver all its energy into a paper target. There is some arguement about whether the HP on a rifle bullet is for balance schift or for an aerodynamic vortex (mumbo jumbo, blah blah).

HP rifle bullets are generally very bad choices for hunting as they tend to be inconsistent terminal performers. They either fragment dramatically or fold in on them selves and become FMJ's.

LE snipers use them because of the desire for extreme accuracy. CNS placement is very forgiving of terminal performance.

HP rifles above .35 caliber are frequently made for the same characteristics a handgun HP is made for. A .444 Marlin or .45-70 HP is an expanding bullet not a match bullet.

cpttango30 03-10-2009 03:48 PM

Hollow points on match bullets server two purposes. 1. as robo said to set the center of gravity more to the rear of the bullet. And 2. The hollow point also created a cushin of air in the front of the bullet allowing the air to flow around the bullet with less resistance.

Hollow cavity bullets are found mostly in varmint rounds like the Barns Varmint Grenade bullets. are there to aid in expansion because you are shooting very small targets so you want the bullet to expend the most amount of energy into a very small target you need a bullet that will expand very rapidly.

HP Match bullets are made to do one thing and do it well be accurate. They don't worry about jacket thickness they don't worry about bonding the jacket and core. They worry about the weight and the dimensions that is just about it. They make sure that every bullet is as close to perfect that can be humanly done.

Some hunting bullets use a HP design Barns and Sierra have these along with others as well. these are designed to help aid in bullet expansion and to help create 4 or 5 petals.

res45 09-29-2009 09:36 PM

Good read on how the HP style bullet works in various configurations.

HOLLOW POINT BULLET Articles A hollow point is a bullet that has

Cutaway view of Russian 7.62 x 39mm HP

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/Bullet.jpg

c3shooter 09-29-2009 09:54 PM

An early version of the "hollow tip" bullet was the British .303 Lee Enfield. Different versions were made with an internal aluminum tip- and even one with fiber/wood. As already stated, purpose was to permit a longer taper to the bullet, thus giving much better drag characteristics, without increasing the total weight- which DOES shift the center of gravity of the bullet to the rear- and you have a more stable bullet.

NOT TO BE CONFUSED with Hollow Point ammunition- made to expand and produce a larger wound channel.

1hole 09-29-2009 10:01 PM

Any bullet will tip and turn somwhat as it slows and stops, why not, it's long and the front is what's encountering resitance. But that's as far as it goes, NO bullet tumbles enough to significantly increase tissue damage.

The whole idea came about as GIs tried to interprete the disproportant, to their minds and experience, tissue damage from the then new and very light weight 5.56/.224 bullets. Field docs could "comfirm" that xrays showed bullets following odd paths and tuned at various angles.

Fact is, the high speed impacts of bullets with more than 3000 fps at the muzzle vs. the effects of older 7.62 rounds at about 10-15 % less is what was doing most of the unsual damage, not tumbling. And, being light, they followed the path of less resistance and followed along divisions between bone and muscle and even between muscle bundles.

Consider that a bullet flying 3000 fps travels 3 ft per thousant of a second! It would pass through a typical small VC in third of a thousant of a second IF it passed through at all. Being so light, the bullet mass is so low it often doesn't pass through but deflectes as tissue resistance dictates and rolls maybe 3/4 turn due to frontal resistance before coming to a full stop perhaps a full millisecond after impact. The bullet simply didn't/doesn't have TIME to run around like a buzz saw inside the victim before it stops!


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