Help me please!!


Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gear & Accessories > Ammunition & Reloading > Help me please!!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2009, 03:38 AM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 103
Default Help me please!!

Hey,
A friend of mine and I are doing a project for our 11th grade Chemistry class. Everyone in the class has to take a chemical reaction in everyday life and do a project on it. My friend and I chose to do smokeless powder. I need some assistance though. To do this project we need the chemical equation of what happens when the firearm goes off. The equation must go something like this

spark from primer + gunpowder = the gas it gives off.

Now I need to take that and put in chemical equation form with all the elements, coefficients, and subscripts. PLEASE, any help would be grateful, even just a general equation it doesnt have to be for a particular powder.

Or, if anyone knows a place i could call up to get some answers and information please do not hesitate who i should contact.
Thank you.



__________________
Lupo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 11-27-2009, 03:40 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jpattersonnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South central,NH
Posts: 5,097
Liked 747 Times on 522 Posts
Likes Given: 791

Default

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/ordtech.pdf
Powley Computer Notes
http://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/2004/ARL-TR-3301.pdf

These may help. You may also want to check your library for books on pyrotechnics and cartridge development.

Your equation should be Primer ignition, Powder ignition, pressure created/ expanding gases.


__________________

Last edited by jpattersonnh; 11-27-2009 at 03:43 PM.
jpattersonnh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 01:28 AM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 293
Liked 9 Times on 6 Posts

Default

"spark from primer + gunpowder = the gas it gives off."

Uncontained smokeless powder is NOT and explosive but it does burn fast and gives off large qualinties of gas. Unless your school lab has a specromerter, keep the question simple. Perhaps limited to the actual volume of gas produced, as Mr. Patterson suggests.

You could then use the gas laws of physics (Boyles Law) to compute the (approximate) pressure that would be produced inside the small volume of a brass cartridge case, which you would also have to measure. Do that with water, in CC, converted to cubic inches if you wanted to push it. You won't be totally accurate but who cares, it will still sound good for a school project!

SO ... you do NOT want to use a large quanity of powder, or your principle will panic. Use perhaps no more than a level tea spoon full, uncontained except for a large bowl or something like that for a burn chamber, and perhaps use a hot wire for ignition. I suggest you try to capture the gas produced in something like a large (deflated) balloon. Measure the resulting volume and do the computations. If you don't know how to do the volume vs. pressure calculation, contact your schools physics teacher, he will likely be glad to show you how to do it.

Good luck!

__________________

Last edited by 1hole; 11-28-2009 at 01:31 AM.
1hole is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 02:13 AM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 103
Default

All this information is very helpful, but I am wondering if anyone can give me a generic equation. I am really needing assistance on this project. I am not looking for a particular load or anything. Please I need this info by around tuesday to complete the project.

__________________
Lupo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:02 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 154
Default

Sorry this is above my pay grade "but"! . . jpattershonn really did give you a good point in the right direction for research material.
I once many YRS ago had a table that listed the expansion rates of most known explosives (substances that have been used by man to blow things up) this list started w/ Black powder and went all the way to the substance just before a Nuke then stopped.
I know this isn't much help to you but I do hope it was some help & I wish you good luck with your project.

__________________
N.D. is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 293
Liked 9 Times on 6 Posts

Default

"I am wondering if anyone can give me a generic equation."

No "load data" would apply to an unconfined burn. What equation are you seeking, what do you want it to show or compute?

__________________
1hole is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:33 AM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DrJason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hartford,CT
Posts: 532
Liked 25 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

What ever happened to going to the library and looking at books for information?

__________________
DrJason is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:43 AM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 103
Default

How a bullet goes off is the equation i want.
The primer + the powder = the gas

__________________
Lupo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:56 AM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 2,435
Liked 329 Times on 220 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

A gas chromatograph would really help to determine the exact chemical compound of the smokless powder and primer to write a more exact equation. Does your shool have one? Or; Do you have access to one?

__________________
mrm14 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 02:21 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 293
Liked 9 Times on 6 Posts

Default

What I want = "The primer + the powder = the gas"

Sorry, there is no such formula.



__________________
1hole is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes