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Fragmented ammo question?


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Old 11-30-2009, 06:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter girl View Post
5.56mm Frangible jacket (DODIC AA40). It has a copper jacket, powdered tungsten and a nylon binder for a core.

Then there is the 5.56mm RRLP, but I am not sure what exactly it is made out of.

Both are made by Black Hills Ammunition, Inc., Rapid City, S.D.

Though I am not sure if it is available for civilian use.
Shooter girl:

Thanks 4 posting.

That AA40 sounds like its along the same lines as some of the ammo that Gate mentioned in his 1st post "The Barnes Varmint grenade" Black Hills is good stuff judging by their rep. so if their loading it it'll probably perform pretty well.
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:25 PM   #12
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223 Winchester 55Gr FMJ Frangible. 20rd Box

Frangible Ammunition

Tactical Defense Solutions LLC: LAKE CITY .223/5.56 FRANGIBLE 50gr - 20 Rounds in PrestoMart

5.56 Ammunition, 55 grain Barnes Lead Free Jacket Frangible, 20 rounds/box
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:50 PM   #13
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Default RE: Michigan clothes.

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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Keep in mind you are in Michigan. For a significant part of the year any potential intruders will be wearing heavy clothing. Using the REALLY light .223 ammo will render the carbine nearly useless against such intruders. If the bullet will fragment in a grape, how will it pass through an insulated leather jacket and still reach the vitals?
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*** A1. I would hope that the reason the Barnes "Grenade does what it does so easy and soon is because of the presence of a high % of moisture in the Cherry (tomatoes) and also in the Grapes as well, "this moisture" "might not" be in those layers of the heavy winter clothes as often nor even in similar percentages as it is found in the human body but then again . . .
this hypothesis may be wrong. . .

But one thing I sure would find hard to believe is the failure of even a frangible rifle round to penetrate Antarctic Michigan's' clothing.
My personal experience tells me that even a Barnes "Varmint grenade" would make it through the winter clothes but after that what damage and how deeply that damage might be I don't know.
on the over/under pen issue I would wager that "The Grenade" would at the very least knock a hole through any dry wall shot with it at close range.

Ideally or maybe not:

A volatile round like this will make it through any clothing short of a Ballistic level II vest and then make it to the vital organs with an explosive showstopper ending however the real world is never an ideal anything and neither is any ammo likely to be either.
SOOOOOOOOOOO . . .
Thats why I'm still researching and not just settling on the first whiz bang ammo I see or hear about, and the search really does have its own rewards as well ROBO.
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A 50-55 gr HP would be a better choice IMHO. Even the heavier (60gr +) bullets in SP or HP will penetrate the walls MUCH less than a 9mm handgun bullet.
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*** A 2.
You very well may be right about some of the available Frangible bullets and a 50-55 GR. HP might just be the right ticket (and I'm very sure a 9 will pen more in WB) but I have to keep examining all the possibilities at least until I am able to find out 1. How a given round behaves in reality when striking both mediums IE; human Flesh/wallboard, then I will know for sure what ammo may actually be a candidate in the running for this election.

See this is very thought provoking isn't it!?

Thanks robo.
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:58 PM   #14
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From what I have seen. The very light varmint grenades tend to only penetrate about six inches. Half of the requirement for an effective round by the FBI.

Maybe after I get my bonus I will purchase a few different types of ammo and test intermediate barrier penetration.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:12 PM   #15
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Default Over & Under!

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Originally Posted by Shooter girl View Post
Of note (not really directed at you). There was a few tests done with various shotgun loads, and typically they found that nothing under #4 buck would reliably penetrate to vital organs at a range of more than 3 or 4 yards.
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Shooter girl:

I agree!

As you mentioned shot guns using light weight SHOT (not flechette Rnds) reach a point of under pen in soft tissue at relatively close ranges, but will still over pen into the next room in most cases.
Now specialy loaded Flechette RNDS will pen/perform very well in flesh w/low recoil, unfortunatly it will (Flechette) still over pen in WB . .

Now of course I'm sure some really smart person/s will figure out a way to solve this problem.


Thanks
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:52 PM   #16
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BillM:
I thank you ever so kindly for providing those links sir.

Thanks for posting
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:54 PM   #17
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Shooter girl:

I agree!

As you mentioned shot guns using light weight SHOT (not flechette Rnds) reach a point of under pen in soft tissue at relatively close ranges, but will still over pen into the next room in most cases.
Now specialy loaded Flechette RNDS will pen/perform very well in flesh w/low recoil, unfortunatly it will (Flechette) still over pen in WB . .

Now of course I'm sure some really smart person/s will figure out a way to solve this problem.


Thanks
N.D.
That depends on building construction.

Remember the fifth safety rule. Know your weapon its capabilities, and what is beyond.
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Last edited by Shooter girl; 11-30-2009 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:14 PM   #18
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Default Building construction

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Originally Posted by Shooter girl View Post
That depends on building construction.

Remember the fifth safety rule. Know your weapon its capabilities, and what is beyond.
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How right you are!

Thanks
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter girl View Post
From what I have seen. The very light varmint grenades tend to only penetrate about six inches. Half of the requirement for an effective round by the FBI.

Maybe after I get my bonus I will purchase a few different types of ammo and test intermediate barrier penetration.
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Shooter girl:

Thanks for the helpful info, sounds just about right for the stated purpose of HD.

My HD situation doesn't require that my loads offer the FBI required 12 in. of pen.
I'll be more than happy with 6-8" of pen ammo to be used exclusively in the house.

Thanks
N.D.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:05 PM   #20
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I would not carry something that can not penetrate 12 inches of flesh. It looks good when you are shooting at someone squared off to you, but that really doesn't happen much. Anything less than 12 inches and you are not likely to hit multiple vital organs that will drop them quickly. Six inches and you are not likely to do significant damage to the BG unless you are taking a straight up frontal shot.
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