Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   Ammunition & Reloading (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/)
-   -   Fragmented ammo question? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/fragmented-ammo-question-20561/)

N.D. 11-30-2009 12:48 AM

Fragmented ammo question?
 
This is the Hypothetical question scenario:
I was thinking of using either a 5.56MM or a 7.62x39MM carbine for home defense and I am concerned about over pen in home walls.
I don't wanna reach out & touch the neighbors so I am looking for some good (IE; reliable and reasonably accurate for its intended purpose) fragmenting or prefragmented ammo to solve this concern.
I am really hoping to get AMMO SUGGESTIONS, not advice to get a (shoulder cant take the recoil anyway) shotgun.
All AMMO SUGGESTIONS or related info will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance. :D

tiberius10721 11-30-2009 01:45 AM

Ive never heard of any type of 5.56 rifle ammunition that would not go through the wall of the house. You stated your shoulder can not handle the recoil of a shotgun. You can buy a shotgun and ammunition for a shotgun that doesnt have any more recoil than a rifle that shoots 7.62 . My wife shoots my 12 guage shotgun with #8 shells in it and it doesnt hurt her arm at all. You can get recoil pads for shotguns that will help with the recoil tremendously. No weapon is better for home defense than a shotgun. especially a pump shotgun.Its a myth that all shotguns have a lot of recoil.

Gatekeeper 11-30-2009 02:22 AM

Ammunition Drywall Penetration Analysis Test (Adpat) - 230-Grain Forums
This is an interesting test I googled. While its not entirely scientific, the test surprisingly showed even 380 handgun rounds passing nearly/completely through three walls. Thats 6 layers of drywall! same with 9mm, 45acp and 12ga 00 buck. The least penetration was with .223/5.56 40gr v-max. Penetrated first wall with small fragments only.
Do some more research, but if you're looking at minimizing penetration with 5.56 Id look at light bullet varmint loadings such as the 40gr v-max. Another possibility would be barnes 40gr varmint grenade. Ive seen some vids on the web of them completely disintegrating passing through a grape.---Gate
-
Varmint grenade link

Shooter girl 11-30-2009 02:44 AM

5.56mm Frangible jacket (DODIC AA40). It has a copper jacket, powdered tungsten and a nylon binder for a core.

Then there is the 5.56mm RRLP, but I am not sure what exactly it is made out of.

Both are made by Black Hills Ammunition, Inc., Rapid City, S.D.

Though I am not sure if it is available for civilian use.

Gatekeeper 11-30-2009 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooter girl (Post 192077)
5.56mm Frangible jacket (DODIC AA40). It has a copper jacket, powdered tungsten and a nylon binder for a core.

Then there is the 5.56mm RRLP, but I am not sure what exactly it is made out of.

Both are made by Black Hills Ammunition, Inc., Rapid City, S.D.

Though I am not sure if it is available for civilian use.

ShooterGirl, Black Hills has a 36gr varmint grenade loading, wonder if thats the civilian version of what you listed?
.
From barnes website Varmint Grenade® | Barnes Bullets
-
-
Introduced in 2007, the Varmint Grenade has rapidly become one of the most popular varmint bullets around. Based on a design Barnes developed for military applications, the hollow-cavity, flat-base bullet features a copper-tin composite core surrounded by a guilding-metal jacket. This extremely accurate bullet enjoys consistently high demand.
The bullet remains intact at ultra-high velocities, while its highly frangible core fragments explosively on impact. Produces instant fragmentation, virtually vaporizing ground squirrels and prairie dogs, even at long range. Expending its energy early, the Varmint Grenade seldom exits large predators like bobcats and coyotes, leaving valuable pelts virtually undamaged.
For 2009, Barnes’ best-selling Varmint Grenade lineup now includes 26-grain bullets for the .204 Ruger, new 30-grain .224” bullets for .22 Hornet firearms, as well as 36-grain .224” bullets, and 50-grain .224” bullets for rifles with 1:10 or faster twists. There’s also a 62-grain .243” Varmint Grenade for 6mm rifles. While these lead-free bullets are environmentally safe, they’re deadly on prairie dogs and other varmints. The unique, instantly frangible core ends worries of ricochets.
Varmint Grenades are sold in 100- and 250-bullet packs. Factory loads are available from Black Hills Ammunition

Shooter girl 11-30-2009 03:25 AM

I don't think so.

I believe that they are 55 and 60 gr respectively.

Though other companies may have used the same idea for different rounds.

robocop10mm 11-30-2009 02:18 PM

Keep in mind you are in Michigan. For a significant part of the year any potential intruders will be wearing heavy clothing. Using the REALLY light .223 ammo will render the carbine nearly useless against such intruders. If the bullet will fragment in a grape, how will it pass through an insulated leather jacket and still reach the vitals?

A 50-55 gr HP would be a better choice IMHO. Even the heavier (60gr +) bullets in SP or HP will penetrate the walls MUCH less than a 9mm handgun bullet.

N.D. 11-30-2009 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiberius10721 (Post 192047)
Ive never heard of any type of 5.56 rifle ammunition that would not go through the wall of the house. You stated your shoulder can not handle the recoil of a shotgun. You can buy a shotgun and ammunition for a shotgun that doesnt have any more recoil than a rifle that shoots 7.62 . My wife shoots my 12 guage shotgun with #8 shells in it and it doesnt hurt her arm at all. You can get recoil pads for shotguns that will help with the recoil tremendously. No weapon is better for home defense than a shotgun. especially a pump shotgun.Its a myth that all shotguns have a lot of recoil.

tiberious:

This former FFL holder has literally fired hundreds of rounds of 0 buck not to mention all the "other various types of shells" I have fired including some various types O' special purpose military and LE only ammo. I have conducted "my own penetration tests" and have every reason to draw the conclusion that (while; you have brought up the valid point that there are "low recoil loads" available ETC.) "I feel The shot gun is not the right platform for me at this time."
But I will take it under advisement, and Thank you for taking the time to post.

Please see 1ST. post above for POSTING PARAMETERS thanks.

Shooter girl 11-30-2009 06:51 PM

Of note (not really directed at you). There was a few tests done with various shotgun loads, and typically they found that nothing under #4 buck would reliably penetrate to vital organs at a range of more than 3 or 4 yards.

N.D. 11-30-2009 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper (Post 192065)
Ammunition Drywall Penetration Analysis Test (Adpat) - 230-Grain Forums
This is an interesting test I googled. While its not entirely scientific, the test surprisingly showed even 380 handgun rounds passing nearly/completely through three walls. Thats 6 layers of drywall! same with 9mm, 45acp and 12ga 00 buck. The least penetration was with .223/5.56 40gr v-max. Penetrated first wall with small fragments only.
Do some more research, but if you're looking at minimizing penetration with 5.56 Id look at light bullet varmint loadings such as the 40gr v-max. Another possibility would be barnes 40gr varmint grenade. Ive seen some vids on the web of them completely disintegrating passing through a grape.---Gate
-
Varmint grenade link
YouTube - Barnes Varmint Grenade

Gate:
Great vid loved it; thanks for the link.
and . . .
Thanks for the response, its right on target.
I have been giving these types of ammo some scrutiny and they are currently under consideration for my purpose.
Although I do wonder if the Barnes "grenade" would really be as (Lethally) effective on human predators as it appears that it will be on yotes' & varmints & if it will frag (disintegrate) when it hits drywall or not.


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:56 PM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.