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-   -   False hopes? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/false-hopes-77393/)

Tenderribbs 11-30-2012 02:56 AM

False hopes?
 
I've just started reloading 223 the past few weeks ad it's been great therapy , but as far as shooting 1 MOA it's yet to be seen. I have only been shooting my S&W ,haven't started on my DPMS , delton , or colt yet , the best group as of yet is 2 MoA . I know these are not match barrells and they are 16 in but I'm reading folks shooting sub MOA at 200 ,even 300 yds. Now I know I can shoot sub MOA , because I can with my deer rifles . Am I having false hopes with these Ar rifles? I've tried varget with 55 FMJ /BT and 60g Nosler BT/ boat tail with H335. At 25 yds I can make holes touch , but at 100 they spread out to 2 in. Thanks for any advice

trip286 11-30-2012 03:03 AM

Man, really I'd be tickled pink to be getting 2" groups with a 16" barrel.

You may just need more practice if you insist on going sub MOA. You could look at a match trigger.

locutus 11-30-2012 03:56 AM

Your Colt is certainly capable of MOA. Keep trying.

My LE6940 shoots 1.25 MOA with M193 ball ammo.

Never tried match grade, since 1.25 MOA is all I'll ever need from a SHTF rifle

JTJ 11-30-2012 04:25 AM

Hornady 55 grain fmj bt with Varget or H335 have given me 1 moa in my DPMS with a Burris 3-9x40 at 9x. I switched to a 1-4x24 and I cant hold quite as tight with it but good enough. I know it is me not the loads.

Txhillbilly 11-30-2012 04:39 AM

You should be able to shoot 1moa or better with the Nosler B/T bullets. I haven't seen many guns that won't shoot them or a 60gr Vmax bullet well.
How much powder are you loading in them?
If your running the factory trigger,that is probably the main reason for big groups. Most factory triggers are very heavy,gritty,and have a lot of creep/travel. Get a good trigger in your guns,and your groups will shrink dramatically.

I run the RRA 2 stage NM trigger in all of my AR15's,and just had Bill Springfield do a 3lb trigger job on my DPMS LR-260.He did a fantastic job on it,and he's pretty cheap and fast.

tri70 11-30-2012 11:43 AM

Try switching powders like H335 or Reloader 7 works well with Nosler 55 gr ballistic tips.

Tenderribbs 11-30-2012 02:20 PM

Thanks I'm looking at a timney trigger at the moment. I've tried H335 24.5 g with the 55 FMJ/bt. I started at 22 and at 24.5 the Holes were touching at 25uds but Opend up to 2 moa at 100. I also tried the Nosler Balistic tip/BT with 25 g of varget , same result buletts touching at 25yds but Opend back up at a 100 to 2MOA . Can anyone explain to me why the discrepancy between the 25 yd and the 100 yd. trigger maybe? I'm going to try some 69 nosler today , I think my 1 to 8 riffling will like it. Thanks for your input

robocop10mm 11-30-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenderribbs (Post 1033230)
Thanks I'm looking at a timney trigger at the moment. I've tried H335 24.5 g with the 55 FMJ/bt. I started at 22 and at 24.5 the Holes were touching at 25uds but Opend up to 2 moa at 100. I also tried the Nosler Balistic tip/BT with 25 g of varget , same result buletts touching at 25yds but Opend back up at a 100 to 2MOA . Can anyone explain to me why the discrepancy between the 25 yd and the 100 yd. trigger maybe? I'm going to try some 69 nosler today , I think my 1 to 8 riffling will like it. Thanks for your input

You may find a different powder works for you better. I use W748 or BLC-2 with very good results.

Of course they "open up" at 100. Remember, the bullets/bullet holes were "touching" when they left the muzzle. The group will open up as range increases. At 1000 yards, the group will be signficant. The bullet flights will look like a cone. How large a cone depends on the load, the gun and the shooter. 2'' at 100 is 2 moa (give or take a hair). 2 moa from a carbine is pretty darn good. Some of these folks who claim "sub moa" groups from 16" barrels are exagerating a bit.

Tenderribbs 11-30-2012 06:05 PM

Ok. That makes sense the cone example helps me visualize the concept . Yea I see claims of 1 1/2 groups at 300 with carbines , heck I can't even get that with my sako 243 and she's a shooter. I will try the powder you suggested and see if I can tighten it up a little . My buddy just gave me a few 77g BT/ HP noslers to try , I bet my 1 to 8 will like them . Well see , thanks for the feedback .

locutus 11-30-2012 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robocop10mm (Post 1033282)
Some of these folks who claim "sub moa" groups from 16" barrels are exagerating a bit.




Absolutely. Gun rag writers cause an awful lot of totally unrealistic expectations.:(


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