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-   -   "blowback"? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/blowback-23273/)

Rosko Packer 02-11-2010 03:58 AM

"blowback"?
 
I am new to reloading and have a novice's question. I have been trying different loads/bullets in a 41mag revolver. When using H110, with jacketed bullets, gases were shooting out from the front of the cylinder where I could feel them strike my face. I saw no signs on the cases of pressure problems, but after only 10 rounds gray powder residue was all over the outside of this gun. I shot the same charge and bullet weight but with cast bullets and this doesn't happen. I have been trying to analyse what caused this (haven't shot any of the "blowbackers" since as it almost seems like the bore is too tight for the jacketed bullets, also seems that this would jump pressure thru the roof). Any info,ideas,experience, or info would be much appreciated.

TheOldMan 02-11-2010 11:51 AM

Could you supply us with your bullet types, weight, and powder charges that you are using? I'm no expert either but one thing that comes to mind for me might be the type of crimp you are using on the jacketed bullets? You usually want to use a roll crimp on your magnum loads if memory serves.

cpttango30 02-11-2010 01:34 PM

Gas escapes from there on a revolver. H110 is a powder I have not used.

Some powder are dirtier than others. I would pull the bullets on any remaining loads and check to make sure that your not over loaded. In many pistol cartridges it is very easy to get double charges.

Some people do load for "SHOW" they find the powder that produces the biggest flame just to spook people at the range.

robocop10mm 02-11-2010 01:55 PM

H-110 is a very good choice for Magnum revolver rounds. I use a similar powder (W-296) for my hot loads in .357, .41 and .44 mag. Gray residue is well burnt powder. In the cast bullet loads, are you using H-110?

I would be a bit concerned of an overcharge. My experience with .41 mag tells me it is an efficient cartridge capable of exceeding .44 mag ballistics. The guns are marginally stronger than comparable .44's because of the smaller holes bored into the same size cylinder/barrel giving more steel to protect you.

I would pull a few of the bullets and weigh the charge. Triple check the charge weight against your loading data and the Hodgdon web site to make sure you have not goofed.

According to the Hodgdon web site the max load for a 210 gr JHP is 22 grains for 1631 fps (that is FAST!) and 26.5 gr for a 170 gr JHC yielding 1887 fps (that is REALLY fast!!!). I use 22 gr of W-296 with the 170 gr in all three of my .41 Mags.

Missileman 02-11-2010 03:22 PM

I reload .41 Mag exclussively with H110 and jacketed bullets--however, it is a slow buring powder and you should not shoot reduced loads in it, so just make sure you are within the range listed in the loading manuals--I've never had any problems, but it does throw out quite a flame in a dark shooting range!

Rosko Packer 02-11-2010 03:51 PM

bullets are Berry's "premium swaged-precision plated" FP @ 210gr, and Hunter's Supply SWC (2 wax grooves) @ 215gr. I started at 16gr H110, then 17,17.5 and the last I shot was 18gr. I noticed the "spray" a little bit down at the 16 and it increased as charge went up (only with the jacketed). I also loaded with Titegroup,Blue Dot, and even tryed some 700X. The only "blowback" was with the 110. This is not just gas coming out the sides of a revolver, this is gas pushing back (some clear to my face) that smeared clear up to the rear sight.

canebrake 02-11-2010 03:59 PM

Are the bullets that out-gas between the cylinder and the forcing cone totaly jacketed? Or are they open at the base exposing the bullet's core to the burning gas?

Are you getting excessive leading in the barrel?

Could your problem be as simple as the need for a gas check to prevent the burn-off of the bullet core?

Additional information is needed; Gun make & model, barrel length, compensator or magna-ported, photos of the loading components - case (is brass new or fired) , primer, bullet and powder type and load that is causing the gray powder deposits. And photos of the gray deposits.

Rosko Packer 02-11-2010 04:38 PM

I don't have any photos as I cleaned everything up. Gun is a Raging Bull, long barrel with factory comp holes. The bullets that did this are completely copper coated (base too). What seems strange to me is that the 110 and the jacketed bullets is the only combination that does this. I was expecting leading from the cast bullets, but have been pleasantly surprised at the lack of it. I have other powders so this isn't the end of the world, it is just one of those questions that "bugs" me. The primers are not magnum, just large pistol. I don't understand what difference that would make as far as this situation. I have always wanted to try the reloading thing but it seemed complicated to do right. I recently had a beloved uncle pass away who left to me a bunch of equip. People who reload all told me "aw, it's easy". Well, I guess in some ways it is. Prep a case, dump some powder, mash in a bullet,-good to go! As a person who likes to experiment a bit to do the best I can, I find I was right in the first place. There are a LOT of variables to deal with as I'm sure you know (seating depth,crimp style or not,primer brand and type,on and on). I have 8 books (manuals) and don't ever do anything that is not in more than one of them (how's that for "wimpy"?). I am just on a quest to develope the most accurate ammo I can (power is nice too, but secondary as the only thing I hunt anymore are jugs full of water, targets,and rocks)

robocop10mm 02-11-2010 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosko Packer (Post 228691)
bullets are Berry's "premium swaged-precision plated" FP @ 210gr, and Hunter's Supply SWC (2 wax grooves) @ 215gr. I started at 16gr H110, then 17,17.5 and the last I shot was 18gr. I noticed the "spray" a little bit down at the 16 and it increased as charge went up (only with the jacketed). I also loaded with Titegroup,Blue Dot, and even tryed some 700X. The only "blowback" was with the 110. This is not just gas coming out the sides of a revolver, this is gas pushing back (some clear to my face) that smeared clear up to the rear sight.

First and formost DO NOT USE BLUE DOT IN A .41 MAG!!!

Alliant specifically says to not use Blue Dot. There have been some blow ups using it in this caliber.

#2 A plated bullet should not be loaded with data for jacketed bullets. They are different. Plated bullets should be loaded with the same data for cast bullets.

#3 16 gr of H-110 is too light. The published minimum is 19.8 gr with a JACKETED bullet. There is no data for H-110 with a cast bullet. Plated bullets should not be used with H-110

Rosko Packer 02-11-2010 07:05 PM

HOLY COW! MORE variables! I have never read, or heard or paid attention to there being a difference between jacketed and plated. Can YOU throw some more info at me about this? Is it a hardness thing? Also, in Lyman's #49 the following loads are listed for 41mag:170gr jack HC-13.7-15.3gr Blue Dot,200gr jack HP-11.7-13gr Blue Dot, 210gr jack HP 11.9-13.3gr Blue Dot, 220gr jack SP 10.8-12.0gr Blue Dot. This is the latest Lyman's I have (copyright: 2008). Is there new news that this edition doesn't have?


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