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Old 06-27-2012, 07:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ninjatoth View Post
I agree,any old timer will tell you 00,I even asked an old timer about 000,and he's like..nahhh,-00.Double-aught is the best selling for a reason,mainly because it's a proven deer dropper,and in my opinion,it's got the perfect balance of close range low penetration power with just enough weight to be effective out to and beyond 25 yards if you needed to use it that far.I'd hate to be in a gunfight where the BG was shooting at me with an AR from 40 yards out and all I had was like #4 buck,i'd be S.O.L.
My concern is indoor though. I would guess most HD incidents are when the perp is being fired at indoors/in your home. I am not sure but I also would think that firing on someone outside your home is inviting legal trouble. Inside the home 00 buckshot would probably not be the best idea especially if there are loved ones in other rooms of the home or even neighbors if you are sharing a wall.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:51 PM   #22
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Any round that will penetrate well enough to guarantee getting the shot deep enough to reach vitals will also penetrate walls.

Consider that you may need to overcome heavy clothing, a fat bad guy. You may have to shoot them through light cover, and you probably shouldn't bet on them offering you too many chances to shoot them dead center of the chest, facing you square on. So a round may need to punch through an arm and half a chest, along with clothes after going through some drywall and 2x4s.

It doesn't make it easy to choose a shotgun if you want to limit damage on the other side of a wall. I don't think there is truely a round that meets the criterea of having perfect penetration on people, but stopping short in building material. So, you kind of have to ask a few questions:
Do I want to kill someone who wants to kill me, rape and kidnap my daugter and burn rape and kill my wife, or do I want to hope that if I cause some pain and shallow injury that they will stop?
Is it worth trying to protect the family if there is a possibility of causing collateral damage?
What are the odds of a miss or a stray pellet causing severe injury or death to someone else inside or outside the home, and does that justify my ammo and weapon choice.
Would I be better off with a different platform, like a handgun or rifle with lightweight soft points that may be placed more precisely?
What weapon can I run well under stress, almost without having to think about it, so I can make better decisions about the big picture?
Have I included training of family members in what to do, where to go, and to seek cover if an emergency word is shouted?

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Old 06-27-2012, 09:09 PM   #23
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Any round that will penetrate well enough to guarantee getting the shot deep enough to reach vitals will also penetrate walls.

Consider that you may need to overcome heavy clothing, a fat bad guy. You may have to shoot them through light cover, and you probably shouldn't bet on them offering you too many chances to shoot them dead center of the chest, facing you square on. So a round may need to punch through an arm and half a chest, along with clothes after going through some drywall and 2x4s.

It doesn't make it easy to choose a shotgun if you want to limit damage on the other side of a wall. I don't think there is truely a round that meets the criterea of having perfect penetration on people, but stopping short in building material. So, you kind of have to ask a few questions:
Do I want to kill someone who wants to kill me, rape and kidnap my daugter and burn rape and kill my wife, or do I want to hope that if I cause some pain and shallow injury that they will stop?
Is it worth trying to protect the family if there is a possibility of causing collateral damage?
What are the odds of a miss or a stray pellet causing severe injury or death to someone else inside or outside the home, and does that justify my ammo and weapon choice.
Would I be better off with a different platform, like a handgun or rifle with lightweight soft points that may be placed more precisely?
What weapon can I run well under stress, almost without having to think about it, so I can make better decisions about the big picture?
Have I included training of family members in what to do, where to go, and to seek cover if an emergency word is shouted?
All good points. I'm still debating on lead or "jacketed"/steel shot though to. I mean if you want the most bad ads, powerful shells available why stop at 00. I am simply trying to find that effective round that wont take out the perp, shred the door behind him and cut the tree down in the front yard before killing the neighbor across the street lol.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:40 PM   #24
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All good points. I'm still debating on lead or "jacketed"/steel shot though to. I mean if you want the most bad ads, powerful shells available why stop at 00. I am simply trying to find that effective round that wont take out the perp, shred the door behind him and cut the tree down in the front yard before killing the neighbor across the street lol.
#1, 0, 00. As long as you hit the BG solid, then there shouldn't be much energy left on the other side if any pellets exit.

Have you seen the penetration tests of different shotgun loads in gel?

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958

Caution: if you get into the 3rd page they get into slug testing on deer, hogs, bears etc, so some pics may be considered graphic.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:04 PM   #25
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#1, 0, 00. As long as you hit the BG solid, then there shouldn't be much energy left on the other side if any pellets exit.

Have you seen the penetration tests of different shotgun loads in gel?

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958

Caution: if you get into the 3rd page they get into slug testing on deer, hogs, bears etc, so some pics may be considered graphic.
I'll check it out... hopefully they show not just size but shot material as I've said before... lead vs jacketed and steel.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:08 PM   #26
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I'll check it out... hopefully they show not just size but shot material as I've said before... lead vs jacketed and steel.
Only a few of plated and steel shot loads.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:21 AM   #27
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Oh, OK. Just wanna be clear -- so, you should determine which is best for you?
some people walk into a gun store and buy a shotgun and some ammo, then stick it in the corner, with no regard to whether it will function correctly when needed. different brands of ammo will pattern differently, will have different levels of recoil and can have different POI, even when they are the same type of load. so yes testing should be done, or call it paractice if you want to. but yes, practicing with it is something that should be done simply to be aware of what the shotgun does in regard to POI, pattern and recoil.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:35 AM   #28
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Practice smactice

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Old 06-28-2012, 12:44 AM   #29
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some people walk into a gun store and buy a shotgun and some ammo, then stick it in the corner, with no regard to whether it will function correctly when needed. different brands of ammo will pattern differently, will have different levels of recoil and can have different POI, even when they are the same type of load. so yes testing should be done, or call it paractice if you want to. but yes, practicing with it is something that should be done simply to be aware of what the shotgun does in regard to POI, pattern and recoil.
You lost me... what's the difference between the ammo pattern and the POI (point of impact)?
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:18 AM   #30
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You lost me... what's the difference between the ammo pattern and the POI (point of impact)?
shoot ten different brands of OO buckshot for example, the diameter of the spread or pattern can be different. also the POI can be different. some may hit the the target higher than where aimed, some may hit lower. every shotgun and ammo can perform differently.
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