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-   -   7.62x39 & 7.62x54r (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/7-62x39-7-62x54r-5738/)

supergus 07-20-2008 11:59 PM

7.62x39 & 7.62x54r
 
I just picked up a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 and a Yugo SKS. Can some give me the Cliff's Notes version of these two 7.62 rounds? Accuracy, distance, power, etc.? 'Preciate it!

Righteous 07-21-2008 12:21 AM

one kicks like a girl and one kicks like a mule

cpttango30 07-21-2008 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Righteous (Post 32671)
one kicks like a girl and one kicks like a mule

+1 on that.

Neither are very accurate in the rifles stated above. They offer standard battle field accuracy (Minute of Bad Guy at range).

buy the cheapest ammo and blast away.

rickrem700 07-21-2008 05:20 AM

Ammo Question
 
Russian 123 grain 7.62x39 = 2300 / FPS
With 1,480 FT / LBS


Russian 152 grain 7.62x54R = 2,774 / FPS
With 2,569 FT / LBS


Hope this helps!!!

Joshua M. Smith 07-21-2008 07:23 AM

Think of the x39 as a semi-auto .30-30 and the x54r as a .30-06 class cartridge.

Some use the heavy 7.62x54r loads (200gr soft points) for bear. I'm not recommending this; just reporting.

Most Russian designs are such that they're sighted with the bayonet affixed; if you wish to shoot with the bayonet off, plan on resighting the firearms.

Josh <><

Ermac 07-21-2008 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith (Post 32710)
Think of the x39 as a semi-auto .30-30 and the x54r as a .30-06 class cartridge.

Some use the heavy 7.62x54r loads (200gr soft points) for bear. I'm not recommending this; just reporting.

Most Russian designs are such that they're sighted with the bayonet affixed; if you wish to shoot with the bayonet off, plan on resighting the firearms.

Josh <><

I don't think that's true. The only gun that I heard that the bayonet should be out is the M44 carbine.

Joshua M. Smith 07-21-2008 07:57 PM

Russian doctrine of the World War II era and prior dictated that bayonets shall be affixed at all times unless riding in a truck or in long term storage.

The SKS was tested in latter battles of WWII, most notebly in Belorussia. It was, however, chambered for the 7.62x54r at the time (SKS-41). It was adopted in 7.62x39 in 1945 after the round was developed from caputured German technology (some dispute the German tech thing, but the resemblance to the 7.92x33mm German cartridge can't be ignored).

The bayonet is permanently affixed to the barrel on a hinge, and though tactical doctrine was changing, it had not yet progressed to firing with the bayonet off as of yet, and didn't until, I believe, the AK-47 in 1947 at the very earliest.

Check out the FAQs at http://www.gunboards.com/ .

Josh <><

robocop10mm 07-22-2008 03:06 PM

I have never heard of an SKS 41. There was an SVT-40 that was a Tokarev design that used the 7.62 X 54R cartridge. Simonov (of SKS acclaim) did have an earlier selective fire weapon (AVS-36) that was chambered in the 6.5 Japanese Arisaka round.

+1 on the comparison between the X 39/ .30-30 and the X 54R/ .30-06.

Joshua M. Smith 07-22-2008 06:17 PM

Actually, I wouldn't mind owning one.

The action would help soak up the recoil from the x54r.

At any rate, it's comforting to know the SKS's action changed very little from the one which was designed for the more powerful round. I believe that's one reason the SKS has a reputation as being tough.

IIRC, the AK-47 action originally used the 7.62x54r as well, and was subsequently chambered for the x39 intermediate round as well.

Think of the reputation the M16 would have if it were built on a receiver capable of handling the .308 or even the .30-'06... that'd be some gun :D In fact, I often wonder about the AR10. But that's another discussion.

Josh <><

Laufer 07-30-2008 01:35 AM

An article on a different website posted graphic color photos of a large feral pig which was stopped by a single jhp round from an SKS. The close-up pictures of the wound erased any doubt in my mind about the x39's potential.
Very quick research on the Web reveals how many members of the US military since Vietnam, even nowadays, prefer reliable Russian-built rifles using larger caliber rounds, over US Army-issued. Another topic, but a buddy on the Navy Rifle Team told me that if he were to be in a dusty/dirty combat situation (where survival is the priority), he would probably choose the AK-47 over his cherished AR-15.

Another guy used a tree stand to kill a large bear in the northwest.
He used the MN 44 and stopped the bear with two rounds. How about British killing power? The shortest Lee Enfield, the Jungle Carbine, was used to stop a Grizzly bear with four shots, after the guy stepped out of his car and was startled by the charging beast. The British .303 round has been compared to the really low-cost Mosin's x 54R. The LE's smooth action/shot placement and his steel nerves saved his life.

The lowest-cost ammo I shoot is Wolf x39 (SKS, Mini 30), Bulgarian x 54R (MN 44)and .22 LR. (ancient Savage .22), in that order.

Even Wolf .223 for my used Mini 14 has gotten a bit higher than 7.62x39, having followed many suppliers each week, having begun in January.

In case you folks deal with really young people, do parents realize that if they live near a major supplier and avoid shipping costs (i.e. "Classicarms Inc" etc), that they can buy at least 10 actual Mosin Nagant rifles for the price of just 1 Airsoft MN 91/30?
Or two Mosins with about 3,000 rounds of powerful ammo? Check the Mauser or SKS situations.


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