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Old 03-06-2014, 07:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ninjatoth View Post
I don't much about psi numbers, but I have always heard that a 45acp will last longer than a 9mm because of the lower pressure. Seems like a 45acp+p would still be less psi than a 9mm and 9mms last forever it seems.
Properly maintained, a properly engineered pistol of nearly any caliber should outlast most shooters. (High volume competition shooters excepted)
FWIW, I was referencing the pressure numbers to illustrate how little of a performance upgrade +p really is, at least in the case of the .45 acp.
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Overkill0084 View Post
Properly maintained, a properly engineered pistol of nearly any caliber should outlast most shooters. (High volume competition shooters excepted)
FWIW, I was referencing the pressure numbers to illustrate how little of a performance upgrade +p really is, at least in the case of the .45 acp.
And that translates to about 100-150 FPS. When you have velocities as low as the .45 ACP, I'll take every foot per second of extra velocity that I can get.

Remington 185 Gr +p makes 1100 FPS from my 1911, Glock 21 and my SIG P220. 185 standard barely makes 975.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:12 AM   #23
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+P ammo is generally loaded to SAAMI pressures plus 10%. +P+ ammo is
generally loaded to SAAMI pressures plus 30-40%. But neither is regulated
by SAAMI so you might be getting more than you think you are.

The use of +P or +P+ ammo will create greater wear and faster wear than
normal ammunition. Some manufactures warrantee firearms if +P or +P+
ammo is fired, some will not. Check with your gun manufacturer.

A friend of mine used to shoot nothing but +P+ out of his Ruger P90, until
the chamber cracked and he had to replace the barrel.

I do not recommend the use of +P or +P+ ammo unless the barrel is marked
as such.

Attached is the slide from the NRA Basic Pistol class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock
Can I use +P and +P+ ammunition?

Glock suggests using ammunition that is manufactured and meets SAAMI or
industry specifications. If you are not sure the ammunition brand or type you
choose is safe for use, call the ammunition manufacturer and ask if the product
meets SAAMI guidelines before using it in you firearm. Some +P ammunition
meets these guidelines, +P+ normally does not. This ammunition may generate
a higher pressure over the standard loadings, and may shorten the component
life of your firearm.
Quote:
Unless the firearm is explicitly marked as being +P rated or it is clearly stated
in the gun's manual, +P ammunition should not be used. If in doubt, a check
by a gunsmith or contacting the gun's manufacturer will verify the safety of
+P ammunition in a particular firearm. Ammunition that is loaded to +P
pressures is clearly marked on the headstamp as such, for example a 9mm
would be marked "9mm Luger +P".

The use of +P or +P+ ammunition does accelerate wear and reduces the
service life on the component parts on any pistol.

In addition to questions of safety and durability are issues of reliability and
usability. Since +P cartridges may generate a significantly different quality of
recoil, this can affect firearm function. For example, recoil operated firearms
may fail to function if the velocity of the recoiling parts is too high; in
lightweight revolvers, the cartridge case may recoil away from the bullet with
sufficient force to overcome the crimp, allowing the bullet to move forward in
the cylinder and causing the cylinder to bind. The increased velocities and
pressures of a +P loading will increase muzzle blast and recoil, and may prove
difficult to handle for many shooters; these problems are exacerbated by
compact, lightweight guns with short barrels.
p-p-ammo.jpg  
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatoth View Post
I don't much about psi numbers, but I have always heard that a 45acp will last longer than a 9mm because of the lower pressure. Seems like a 45acp+p would still be less psi than a 9mm and 9mms last forever it seems.
what wears 45's out is the slide slamming into the frame. which is typical wear of any semi auto.

you dont get into pressure curves high enough to really damage a barrel over time and use until you hit 357mag/10mm levels.

45acp 9mm 40shortandweak all are lacking in high enough pressure to damage the throating before the gun frame and internals need a serious going over. there is some wear but it is extremely minor compaired to bigger rounds.

1911's for example are capable of easily withstanding 40,000cup pressure levels and up as in the 460 rowland. doing that needs special springs and porting to keep the firearm from beating itself to death in a few hundred rounds. the real limiting factor in semi handgun design isnt pressure but metallurgy. we just dont have metals strong enough to really take that sort of beating. we can build barrels and cases able to withstand extremely high pressures, but every part inside and out would pretty much need to be titanium or some other exotic metal at our technology level to withstand the recoil forces exerted by operating at that speed.

the danger from +p and +p+ isnt really the pressure but the damage the extra recoil does to the gun
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade View Post
+P ammo is generally loaded to SAAMI pressures plus 10%. +P+ ammo is
generally loaded to SAAMI pressures plus 30-40%. But neither is regulated
by SAAMI
so you might be getting more than you think you are.
45 ACP +P is indeed regulated by SAAMI, as is 9MM +P, 38 Super +P and 38 Special +P.

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfPR.pdf
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:49 PM   #26
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+P is considered "normal standard" for European ammo. Most 9MM manufactured in WW2 would be considered +P+ today.

Of course, back then, shooters were more concerned with performance than keeping themselves safe from the depredations of lawyers.

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Old 03-10-2014, 05:06 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mseric View Post
45 ACP +P is indeed regulated by SAAMI, as is 9MM +P, 38 Super +P and 38 Special +P.

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfPR.pdf
I stand corrected, I looked for a reference, your link provides that, thanks.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:21 AM   #28
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What would be a good recoil spring to get? I know springs are rated by pounds so what would be a good one and how can I tell the rating. I got on Wilson combats website and all they give is 9# to 24#. Is that the poundage?

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:32 AM   #29
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What would be a good recoil spring to get? I know springs are rated by pounds so what would be a good one and how can I tell the rating. I got on Wilson combats website and all they give is 9# to 24#. Is that the poundage?
yes that is the lbs. the spring is rated at. unless you full understand the reasons for using heavier or lighter than factory weight springs, you will come end up with lots of operation problems with the pistol along with possible frame damage.

different recoil springs allow a person to tune the pistol to personal reloads for specific uses.

if you are shooting nothing more than factory ammo, best advice i can give you is leave the factory recoil spring alone.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:39 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by locutus View Post
And that translates to about 100-150 FPS. When you have velocities as low as the .45 ACP, I'll take every foot per second of extra velocity that I can get.
OTOH, I embrace the lower velocity of the .45ACP, for me, it's a big

part of what makes the round attractive.

Maybe if I were in bear territory, or something, I might use it.
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