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Old 11-08-2010, 03:31 PM   #21
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I use the 70 gr. TSX in my 16" AR. Like a few have mentioned, shot placement is key. I do have a 1:8 twist barrel.

5.56mm ammunition, Barnes 70gr Lead Free .223 TSX

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Old 11-08-2010, 08:26 PM   #22
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Another option, IMHO, would be to put an 6.8 upper on that 5.56 lower. You will need a 6.8 mag as the overall length is dang near the same but the diameter of the cartridge is larger on the 6.8. I'm running a 110 grain V-Max bullet in my granddaughter's 6.8 evil black gun whitetail kill'n machine.

As she is only 10 years old I believe the AR platform to be well suited as I can adjust the length of pull to fit her perfectly and the 6.8 is still pretty low on the recoil spectrum. I have also added a Limb Saver slip on recoil pad to the butt stock.

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Old 11-10-2010, 01:09 PM   #23
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I have always been interested in the 223's capabilities. I have a Remmy 700 in 223 that I use for varmints but have never tried to work up a load to try and take a dear. I usually leave that to my 270 or 12 Ga. I also have a Win 70 in 223 WSSM. I bought it brand new dirt cheap. It has never been shot as I have yet to buy a scope for it so it currently sits safely in the gun safe. I wonder, with all the extra powder capacity and velocity capabilities of the 223 WSSM, when paired with the right bullet, if an effective deer round could be made. Any thoughts?

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Old 11-17-2010, 04:38 PM   #24
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i bought a .223 R-15CS to serve many purposes(extended defense, varmint, plinking, and most importantly my 3 daughters' first deer rifle. saturday i took it out to make sure it would take a deer if i limited the Girls to 50 or 75 yards. i shot a doe at 56 yards and she only went a few feet and fell. a well trained, well practiced, well placed shot into the vitals will more than make up for the size . and getting a child into hunting without a gun beating the "fun" out of them is well worth it.

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Old 11-17-2010, 10:00 PM   #25
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Default new guy...hello...and..

On opening morning this year i took this 8 point at 177 yards with a winchester 64 grain power point through the heart. The deer ran ten yards. I lost the entire right shoulder due to tissue damage...on the entrance side. The heart had a50 caliber hole in it and there was no exit wound...the bullet didn't even enter near the shoulder, but the trauma was extreme there anyway. The bullet actuall entered the ribcage just below the elbow, but the deer was walking, so who knows why so much damage up and left of the entrance wound. There were broken rib shards everywhere inside the body cavity as well, and no exit wound from the body cavity at all..just the hole in the heart. on the right front leg, everything feom the elbow up was unuseable meat..more like jelly. Very interesting , but tough to explain. I did take a second shot that entered right beside the first and the combined entrance hole was nearly big enough to put my hand through, but not quite. It's possible/likely that one of the bullets fragmented up into the leg as i only found one bullet. there were tiny fragments here and there inside the body cavity as well. I didn't dig around in the ruined meat at all.



The dark spot on the right front shoulder isn't the entrance hole/holes...it is blood stain from dripping out of the holes which are not visible..just above the elbow in the pic. I'll see if i can dig up a ic that sortof shows them.

Here is the bullet that never made it out of the deer at that yardage..


Textbook expansion to slightly over .5 inch. All this tells me i was nearing the limit of the .223 comfortable range for deer, since it didn't exit after this perfect performance. I think a shot to something other than the heart may have had a different outcome. In other words, skill plays a huge role, as it should with any caliber. Be realistic about your marksmanship skills and don't use it for shots you can't make with confidence. I will probably use it again, but not outside 150 yards. To prevent waving as a trophy walks by at 250 yards, i intend to get a .243 as i enjoy light recoil and high accuracy. I am not from missouri and had limited time to hunt this year due to work. There are certainly bigger deer here and i'm not sure i would recommend the .223 for them at ranges over 200 yards.

I hope this is helpful..it's real-world experience and very current.

okay here is a picture where you can barely see the two holes..beside the elbow and just above it.


The deer was broadside for the first shot and ver slightly quartering away for the second.

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Old 11-18-2010, 08:15 PM   #26
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Thanks for the real world recap. Very interesting. That recovered slug is classic. Deer here in GA are typically smaller bodied & a long shot for me is 100 yards due to terrain. I'll be trying my luck this weekend. Good shooting & thanks for the review!

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Old 11-18-2010, 09:28 PM   #27
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I don't believe in headshots at all on deer. I shot a doe with my .243 30years ago. Hit her in the bottom jaw and blew bloody corn all over the place. we trailed her for a half mile and never found her. She died, I guarantee it, but it may have been from starvation or infection and who knows how long it took. There are too many things you can hit that won't kill them RIGHT NOW. I haven't shot a deer anywhere but the upper neck since. You either get spine, jugular or precious little else, generally this means they go down right now or they bleed like crazy and die quickly and leave a good trail. If you just nick 'em then it's no more damage than if they scraped themselves jumping a barbed wire fence. I don't like the traditional chest shot for the same reason. lung shot dear die, but most of the bleeding is internal and hard to trail. The upper neck is about the same diameter as the heart but there is less "collateral" damage possible. Using too small of a rifle is the other side of the same coin. My Mom hunts with a .222 Rem. and never shoots farther than 50yards and never takes a shot if she can't get a neck shot. It has enough horsepower to break the necks routinely. Here in Texas it's illegal to hunt with ANY rimfire and there are plenty of centerfires that I don't believe are sufficient for humane hunting unless you can hit 'em in the neck.

My .02

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Old 11-18-2010, 10:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quigleysharps4570 View Post
Not legal here...but if that was what I were going to use I'd load that round with a 55 gr. Barnes TSX.
Yep not legal here either.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:57 PM   #29
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Default .223 checklist...

here's how i would classify use of the .223 for deer, in terms of questions the hunter needs to ask before taking to the field.

1. what ammunition do you have? If you are not using controlled expansion soft points, results can be very unpredictable.

2. How well do you shoot? Honestly. Can you hit the heart, or a 6 inch circle including the heart and lungs, every single time at any yardage a shot may present itself? Have you been shooting all year and hunting with the caliber? Or, are you going to sight in your rifle the week before deer season and go for it? If you are doing the second one, i want to be far from where you hunt and the .223 should not be your choice. Obviously there are other ability levels between the two extremes..be very honest about your ability and plan accordingly.

3. can you resist a trophy at 250-300 yards? Personally, i think you should with the .223. Even 200 yards if the deer is big. How much control over your buck fever do you really have? Again, be honest with yourself. A shoulder shot (I call this a miss with the .223) will probably run off at those yardages with this caliber. With a .308 variant, at least you can probably down the deer with such a shot. Be honest.

4. Hard questions, honest answers will help you decide. Please be very sure of yourself and the ballistics of this round BEFORE you hit the deer stand.

I was POSITIVE of the heart shot when i took it from a solid rest. Even so, i have seen the deer here and want extra range, just in case. As a result, i am now studying .243 vs .308. Since Missouri is re-introducing elk now....308 is looking more and more attractive. I have seen what the .223 will do to a deer first hand at 177 laser measured yards and i will continue to use it for yotes and groundhogs. If i find myself on a small food plot somewhere with all shots under 200 yards...150 would be better, i'll use it for deer too. otherwise, i want a larger caliber.

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Old 11-19-2010, 01:56 AM   #30
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Nice write up Ronbo.Also,Congrats on your buck.

While there are many calibers that are capable of taking whitetail sized game,there are a lot of people that will argue with the 223 being one of them.

I shoot 223 caliber rifles probably 5x more than any other caliber rifle (And I shoot quite a few different calibers).I also handload all of my ammo,and spend a lot of time testing and fine tuning loads for all my shooting needs.
I won't hesitate to use a 223 for taking whitetails,as long as they are in the range that I feel confident on a 1 shot kill.For me that would be no farther than 150yrds.
You also need to know your bullets and use one that will have the expansion as well as penetration on game animals,for me there are only 2 bullets that fill that need-Sierra 65gr Gameking SP and Speer 70gr SP.
I personally wouldn't trust using anything lighter,or any other type of .224 bullet than a soft point.

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