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Old 12-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #171
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mv difference and a 6 point crimp. thats it.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:32 AM   #172
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I thought skeet loads were 1150 fps ? What is MV ? What most people don't talk about much is shot string. If the big dogs shoot 1 oz loads, then why do STS's and other manufacturers only make 9 shot loads in 11/8 oz loads ?

My gas gun helps but 11/8 oz gets old fast in O/U's unless they have alot of weight added. To be honest, it seems to be the first thing people add to a new shotgun. Dead Mules, mercury weights in all manner of sizes and nomenclatures.

Most of the ones I know are kinda heavy, like 10 oz or more. Baretta makes weighted caps in a variety of weights.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:04 PM   #173
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not remington 20ga gun clubs. they are 1200. 12ga are 1145.

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Old 12-21-2013, 12:17 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzilla View Post
I thought skeet loads were 1150 fps ? What is MV ? What most people don't talk about much is shot string. If the big dogs shoot 1 oz loads, then why do STS's and other manufacturers only make 9 shot loads in 11/8 oz loads ?

My gas gun helps but 11/8 oz gets old fast in O/U's unless they have alot of weight added. To be honest, it seems to be the first thing people add to a new shotgun. Dead Mules, mercury weights in all manner of sizes and nomenclatures.

Most of the ones I know are kinda heavy, like 10 oz or more. Baretta makes weighted caps in a variety of weights.
Eh. If you're on the target, then you're on. Ammo doesn't change your performance too much.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:57 PM   #175
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Eh. If you're on the target, then you're on. Ammo doesn't change your performance too much.
The experts say gun speed is the most important factor, even more than the old school lead. So if we define "on target" as having the correct guns speed and your lead is in the center (sweet spot) of your pattern - only then - ammo selection is less important.

However, if you do not have the correct gun speed, then your lead cold be anywhere inside or outside of your pattern. Different chokes w different ammo does change pattern size & shape. Use lg enough board and you will see areas where the bird can escape.

This is where Bobski's stick w one gun pays off - you learn to compensate for where the gun is shooting until you are hitting in the sweet spot. This is readily apparent on the range - the target doesn't just break, "It is Crushed in Powder." Once you can do this consistently, you can move down a guage & repeat. I've seen people run 50/50 w .410.

(I shoot whatever's on sale or I can get my hands on as ammo is still hard to get. Walmart's limit is 3 boxes of Dove shells - if they have ammo.)
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:40 PM   #176
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there is a marked difference between 1200fps and 1145. small, but a pro can tell it. this is why most prefer the sts over gun clubs. gunclubs are slooowwww. estates are 1205 and some are 1225. most ammo makers increase speed but drop lead content to 1oz. nothing beats a 1 1/8oz 3 dram load. its the benchmark load in which all leads were established on.
old school, old theory, less mistakes. the days of real men shooting real loads in real guns....and laughing at black and blue marks. a group im proud to be part of.

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Old 12-21-2013, 06:45 PM   #177
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my old loaders are rusted in place to make a load ive been shooting for 30 years for all my gauges. i wont change until a powder or wad goes obsolete. so far ive had to change twice. 452xx and 540 went away. but 540 was always known also as hs6, so i still use it under a different name.
if i change, my leads and patterns change. just like some 22's like certain 22 ammo, so do shotguns. ive been thru the whole trial and error and im sticking to what i know best. matter of fact, ive gotten to a point where i can see the results of different primers effect my leads. try a cci209 against an alcan 220. its like a 1oz load compared to a 1 1/8oz load. this is why all my guns look old. its because they are. i never changed...and no i dont need 30" or 32" bbls. my 26's and 28's work just fine.
the gun, the ammo, the shooter have become one. this way there is no excuse when i miss. its always the nut behind the bolt.
when i play, i always break out other loads...like 1oz, dribblers with bad crimps or 5th loaded hulls or throw aways. this way i'll be ready for a squib or a slow shot in the middle of a perfect game...and not get all bent out of shape. i'll know why it missed. i knew it might happen. and was ready for it.
when there is money on the line? FACTORY HULLS BABY.

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Old 12-21-2013, 07:24 PM   #178
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I copied the below from a shotgun website for a quick primer on whar a dram is:

Dram Equivalent speaks to the relative power a shotgun shell produces by equating its load to the velocity produced by an equivalent load in black powder (in drams). One dram = 1/16 of an ounce or 27.34 grains (1.77 grams) in the U.S. Customary System.

So a 3 Dram, 11/8oz load = 1,200 fps. 3 1/4 Dram = 1,255 fps.

Now how 1145, 1200, 1255 and Dove load 1290 effect lead - I'll leave that to Bobski.

Now some ammo manufacturing folk decided to make 1500 fps hunting loads. (Thnk they were 20 ga.) These would shake fillings loose in your teeth. Someone did the math and the decrease in lead necessary was so very small that most people thought it (the beating) was not worth it.

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Old 12-21-2013, 07:54 PM   #179
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I am a scaredy cat. I shoot a 3/4 oz load in a AA wad with 14 gr of imr 800. From a 28 ga Browning Citori with a 30" barrel will have a velocity of 1200/1225 FPS. I shoot almost the same load in a 20 ga just a little more powder 14.75 gr.

I am to freakin feeble to haul a 12 ga around to bust clay.

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Old 12-21-2013, 08:41 PM   #180
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some of my int. skeet loads are 1445. 1500 could very well be hot field loads.
as many may know, nssa dropped the 1205fps rule. so now people are loading up super hot loads to eliminate leads. together with using full chokes with 30-32" bbls...which both increase MV and make the sight plane more like a rifle, skeet has become putting the bead on the bird and firing. no more leading.
reason you must lead a station 4, 4 feet is, because the load at 1200fps can only move so fast. speed it up and there is less lead. this fad of smokin birds with tight chokes is silly. id take 100 chips than 99 poofs and a miss.

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