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Skeet/Sporting Clays O/U - Which One


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Old 12-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
I shoot sporting clays with a double barrel because the 28 ga is gentle on my old bones. Most of the time a course is 100 rounds. I would do better with a pump but about half way through the course my left arm would have a bad case of tendinitis. I can't get a doctor to do anything about my arm. The only times it hurts is when I fish with a plastic worm or shoot a pump shotgun a whole lot. Doctors don't see either as a necessary activities. In the meantime I just sit around the house a whole lot more instead of going fishing or shooting.
I dream of a O/U in 28 ga but I'm still trying to save up for a skeet/sporting clays O/U. Most of the big dogs buy 12 ga then add tube sets to shoot 20, 28 and 410. Tube makers jack up the price on single set of tubes, they want you to buy them all. Almost all the tubes I've seen have chokes but none of the barrel sets did. The barrel sets must be old school. Either way - damn expensive but they do hold their value.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:46 PM   #62
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in the old days, bores were right down the middle.
today, you can order bores any way you want.
problem. if you dont know what your gun is bored, and try to compensate for it thru fit....you may never achieve what your goal is.
bottom line, the benchmark of any gun is the bore line. either your gun shoots above or below or 50-50 to the bore line. now. for those that remember the days of guns without ribs, you may recall how the bbl tapered from the breech to the muzzle. it thru off your perception. ok...so they invented a rib. but now all the rib did was eliminate the quirk. the gun still shot wherever the bore line was. so, to change that, they made high or low ribs. then they invented adjustable ribs. you werent really changing the bore line. you were either raising or lowering the angle of the bbl to shoot where you wanted the pattern to be at a predetermined distance. try to picture a military cannon. if you wanted the shot to go far, you raised the muzzle.
great. so now you have two things to deal with today. the rib adjusted to whatever angle you need and the bore line being bored off the bore line as well. geesh! which do ya want?
ever wonder why o&u shooters REALLY shoot bottom bbl? for decades youd hear them say it gives less recoil because its closer to the bore line. but the real reason is the closer shot must be the bottom bbl because the bottom bbl is angled up to intersect the top bbl at a predetermined distance. ever hear of an adjustable bottom bbl hanger? remember guns like the klm and the browning st100?
the top bbl is fixed and aims more like a rifle for long shots. and...its usually bored full. remember? but the bottom bbl MUST meet the top bbls shot somewhere out there, or else youd have two bbls shooting one lower than the other. so, bottom bbl shoots up to engage the target and the top bbl takes a shot at the far target more like a rifle.
this is why semi autos have the advantage on multiple shots. its the same bore line every shot. and dont think sbs's are not vunerable. which bore intersects the other? if they are both perfectly even, one bbl shoots left and one will shoot right. they too must MEET somewhere. and that is and always was determined by hand fitting and choke choice. throw out fixed chokes and its hail mary where they will meet.

i had a gun built wrong once. back in my stupid days. it was a 5000.00 mistake. i had a 30" trap gun converted to skeet. the gun was bored fixed choke 70-30 from the factory. screw in chokes were installed to the factory bores.
i had my tubes built to shoot 60-40. when i installed my tubes, not only was the tube angled to 70-30 by the original bbl, but on top of that, the tube was shooting 60-40. the gun shot so high it was scary. i ruined the gun. i couldnt shoot all 4 gauges 60-40. follow me?
thats an example of how people think they can out think the guns design. its a waste of time.
i made a set of tubes once where the tubes were .005, except for the 410. owner wanted .010. he figured the tighter pattern would hold a denser pattern at 21yds. sure...but it changed his lead and mechanically after shooting 12-20-28...he naturally went to his muscle memory during 410 and it screwed him up. he went back to .005 in 410 and life returned to normal.
thus my theory is that people with money like spending money just to spend money which helps others survive in todays economy, by hiring professionals to make them junk. and so the entire industry has gone that route. no longer do they make good stuff, because they know the typical shooter is going to tinker it to death anyway. so why waste the effort?
whod ever dream the day europe and russia would take over the american arms market?
here it is.


fyi...kolar and briley offer screw in chokes to all their tube sets. mine were fixed chokes. the inovators browning supertubes, skeetmaster, and purbaugh were old school...and guess what? they worked just fine.
tube sets are dedicated sets for skeet and hand fitted to one gun.
tube inserts are for interchangable use and arent as refined.
tube inserts first made the scene thru savage/fox. their patent was a rubber o-ring designed to fit into any bore without machining.
you probably remember them as the '410ers.'

i should have written a book.

take all the above to heart, and couple it with an adjustable stock option, and different ammo MV's...and you can see how easy it can be to get lost in the scinece. one can counteract the other. one good idea cancels another one out. and by the time you realize it, youre either broke and lost every tournament youre were ever in or you finally get it down pat....youre so old youre eyes and nerves fail you and your gun breaks anyway. or someone invents another mouse trap. and they do.
i think they call it vanity.

i put 1.2 million rounds in my team gun. its now retired. im shooting my backup 4 bbl set. it shoots high. it aint the gun. its my eyes are going. i just deal with it. i aint touching nothing.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:11 PM   #63
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i paint most skeet and trap shooters as 'goldie locks.'
this bed is too hard. this bed is too soft. this bed is juuust right.
this porege is too hot. this porege is too cold. this porege is juuuust right.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:31 PM   #64
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Personally I want a gun that shoots low. On the last station I just cover the clay with the barrel and shoot. I don't have to lead the clay because I swing from behind the clay. The barrel is moving faster than the clay. I learned to shoot this way hunting. You don't know how fast a given bird is flying. If I swing from behind the bird and shoot when the barrel covers him it doesn't matter how fast or slow the bird is flying. The only exception is when the clay is coming from a fast air trap. Then I just barely pass the clay and shoot.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:54 PM   #65
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You guys are lucky you have a place to shot skeet or trap. Lake county,ca has neither. Last time I shot Skeet & Trap was at the Ventura Gun Club in 1974. Still have my Remington 32 Skeet, my Kreighoff 4 barrel skeet set, and my Win Model 12 1947 Trap. Grand sons will probably sell them when I cross the big river.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:48 AM   #66
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Dick471? No! Say it isn't so.
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:24 PM   #67
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I'd love a shot at your Rem 32 ? While I'd also like to bid on K-gun, I can save us both some time as - up front- I can not afford it. Well, I suppose dreams don't count. I see K-guns on various forums w perfectly matched barrel sets: one for skeet & other disiplines and one for Trap.

Can one gun do it all ? Whole lot of money has been spent trying to answer that question. I tried to buy a Beretta 391 that was billed as a Sporting Clays & hunting gun. Wee bit heavy at 7.7lbs out of box but for 3" Mag, that is a mixed blessing. My gun is not the ideal "do everything."
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:28 PM   #68
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GRANDPA!!! where you been????
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:44 PM   #69
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Uncle Dick!1 I have some blueberry moonshine that you might like. Let's meet over the Remington and we can have a drink!!!
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Old 12-25-2013, 12:09 AM   #70
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Bar the doors & lock the windows Dick471 - the "Relatives" - are lining up for a visit.

Never heard a bad word about a Rem 32...Only negative I've heard about the K-gun is the price.

How do feel about adoption ? You & your guns are welcome any time ?
Did I mention my club is only 20 minutes away ?

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