It is funny you are looking for this. Can't help ya, but I just found a hull that was given to me by an old friend of mine. He was shooting an OLD PARKER side by side, 8 ga. and had to have the shells custom milled, that's right I said milled out of solid brass bar stock. FULL length all brass hulls engraved on the head stamp PARKER 8 Bore. had 1,000 made all hand loaded with pyradex and shot with felt wads. REAL old time crap. that thing was a blast to shoot on a 5 stand. looked like we were burning tires with all the smoke it pumped out.