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Old 10-02-2012, 10:36 PM   #21
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Davyboy,

Only some additional thoughts! Unless I have missed something regarding the state of the load of the shotgun. I was assuming from your comment that you were talking about the Semi-Auto Shotgun that has a round in the chamber. So with that we could assume that the pump gun was chambered also. If not we could presume you would have to pull the Charging Lever back on the Semi-Auto to load it first as you would have to Rack the Slide on the Pump Gun. In that case form experience I would have to say that I have had less loading issues with the pump comparing it to the Remington 870 Pump compared to that of the initial loading of the Semi-Auto Model 1100 and other Semis. The Charging Lever must be pulled completely to the rear and let go home on it's own. And we all know that when it comes to Murphy in a critical situation he is truly alive and well !! Realizing that ones fine motor skills goes out the window when in a life threatening situation. So the correct operation of the Charging Lever which in most cases are small and need to be operated with the fingers. (Fine Motor Skill is to use the fingers as well as locate the lever under stress and be sure you pull it back all the way smoothly and correctly.) could be an issue. The Pump Gun utilizes major muscle functions which normally work better in these situations. Then one other issue is that a person who has trained with his pump shotgun can usually make as many "accurate and controlled" shots as a person with a semi-auto due to recovery time needed to achieve an accurate and controlled shot after recoil. I guess it boils down to personal preference but just wanted to share some mind jogging thoughts.
By the way I like my Semi-Auto Shotguns also. I LIKE GUNS! I DO! I DO! I DO!

03
Now that is what I hoped we would arrive at. It is purely down to personal preference experience and training.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #22
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Y'all are right the sound of a pump is very frighting to a intruder but a semi you could put so much more lead at him I would have to go with a semi automatic with bird shot.

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Old 10-05-2012, 02:14 AM   #23
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Just my 2 cents worth.

I've been in combat situations with shotguns and I can tell you that unless someone trains routinely with a pump action shotgun, under extreme stress some shooters delay the process of jacking a fresh shell into the chamber or they freeze completely. Firing a semi-auto eliminates precious time needed to jack the next round.

On the other hand, unless your semi-auto is relatively clean and of SUPERIOR QUALITY, a pump action gun is more reliable.

Contrary to the opinion of some, my experience over 25+ yrs in law enforcement is that a thug who's bold enough to commit robbery or home invasion isn't going to react to the cha-chunk of shucking the fore end. That sound is music to OUR ears, but most pukes who commit these crimes are under the influence of drugs, alcohol, or both. Both diminish the ability to hear so chances are good that they either won't hear it or won't comprehend what they're hearing.

I carried 870's for many years then carried a Benelli semi-auto for the last 8 yrs. Both guns fired flawlessly!!

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Old 10-05-2012, 03:32 AM   #24
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Y'all are right the sound of a pump is very frighting to a intruder but a semi you could put so much more lead at him I would have to go with a semi automatic with bird shot.
And what size bird shot do you think would get into the vitals of a clothed human reliably enough to stop them in short order? People are built a bit different than birds.

There was a news story from Atlanta not too long ago where verbal warning, racking a pump, firing a warning shot and shooting an intruder in the leg didn't get him to stop. I wouldn't rely on the noise of chambering a round to accomplish much.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:54 AM   #25
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Y'all are right the sound of a pump is very frighting to a intruder but a semi you could put so much more lead at him I would have to go with a semi automatic with bird shot.
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And what size bird shot do you think would get into the vitals of a clothed human reliably enough to stop them in short order? People are built a bit different than birds.

There was a news story from Atlanta not too long ago where verbal warning, racking a pump, firing a warning shot and shooting an intruder in the leg didn't get him to stop. I wouldn't rely on the noise of chambering a round to accomplish much.
Yeah, I never saw a bird wearing a Carhartt.

I would not rely on the racking of a round into the chamber to stop an intruder, but it might possibly and wouldn't hurt. That and I would not fire a warning shot, nor would I shoot for anything but center of body mass with nothing less than 00 buckshot.

Years ago (late '70's) I saw a couple of guys get out of a truck (truck pulled away) and they came walking up the road towards me. It was a full moon and I was standing in the road underneath an oak tree (deeply shadowed from the moonlight) about 50 yards from where they were dropped off. As they got closer it was apparent that they did not see me (they were talking to one another and not paying attention to their surroundings). When they were 10 yards away from me I racked a round in my Mossy 500. They both screamed like little girls and jumped three feet in the air. One guy only made a quarter turn and ran off the side of the road into an Oak tree. Sounded like a coconut getting hit by an axe handle. The other guy made a 180 and ran like an Olympic sprinter headed north towards San Francisco.

My father-in-law pulled up and asked what was going on, I was laughing so hard I had a hard time telling him, and by the time I was done he was laughing too. we were blocking the road and when the truck that dropped them off pulled up he had to stop, he asked us to move and we told him what happened. His buddy who ran into the oak was just coming to and crawling up the embankment 9his nose was badly broken and his face was a wreck) and we told the guy he better catch his other buddy or he would be in San Francisco (60 miles north) soon.

Then I leveled the shotgun at him and told them to stay the Hell out of the mountains and if I ever saw him in my neighborhood again they would never find his body.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:49 PM   #26
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Remington makes an Ultimate Home defense round which is supposed to be good. It's hd has 1.25 ounces of load in it and the velocity is 1250.

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:51 PM   #27
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And never aim at the intruders leg aim at the chest.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:00 PM   #28
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MKA-1919 w/sure fire light fore grip etc for under 1000. Loaded with Winchester PDX1

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Old 10-05-2012, 06:32 PM   #29
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And never aim at the intruders leg aim at the chest.
A SWAT team member once told me to aim at the crotch and work your way up.
There has been a lot of talk about speed and reliability with a pump but I have seen a pump short stroked and jammed and it was not in a critical situation. Someone that is not practiced could easily mess up a pump just as well as an auto or forget the automatic safety on a double reload. The auto might be more idiot resistant. I would have said idiot proof but nothing is idiot proof.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:03 PM   #30
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I agree. As an owner of two semi-auto's for a while, I just bought a nice used Rem 870 the other day and I feel lots less confident with it, I could well imagine me screwing up with it under stress without lots of practice first.

But theres not much you as the operator can do wrong with a clean, reliable auto, just keep pulling the trigger.

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