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Old 01-17-2012, 05:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by 30-30remchester View Post
Exactly, the thread asked for the "best" not the most popular Wallyworld wonder. I study firearm design as a hobby and have no particular axe to grind. But the best built, with the best materials, by craftsmen not just assembly line personel was without reservation the Winchester model 12's built before 1955. There were some other that come close but never reached the level of safety and reliabilty, or the quality of construction as the model 12. Some newer ones are as reliable, but are not built to the standards as the old model 12.
I agree with that Remchester. The model 12 was one of the best "off the rack" shotguns ever produced. The only shotguns I have ever handled that had a higher quality to them were custom made. Grandpa Fox"s on model 12 20 ga. was handed down to him by his dad, and is still making it's way through the family. My uncle is using it as a wallhanger curently, but I hope it eventualy comes to me. It would be an honor to use my grandfather's old shotgun in the field again.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:42 PM   #32
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I havent owned a model 870 for a few decades now and its not my favorite but it is a very durable shotgun. But dont put too much faith in the fact so many agencies used them, so often in these situations it is simply the cheapest bid that gets the contract. I have heard of the Mossberg being the only current shotgun to pass the 3,000 round test. This puzzles me somewhat as most old guns can FAR exceed that figure. My old model 12 trap gun has 22,025 rounds through it without a malfunction or cleaning, and this gun was old and used when I got it. I have been unsucsseful in locating the parameters of the test the US required. Do you have access to this data? Surely the test doesnt consist of simply shooting.
I believe the test was 3,000 consecutive rounds with no more than 2 malfunctions.
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:19 PM   #33
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Now I'm just a young gun, and shot 4 different shotguns. Two 870's one a 20 the other a 12, a semi auto bernelli and a 500 20. Out of that I enjoyed the 20 remington. It was my companion for a few hunting seasons and shot my first buck with it. I took it to shoot clays and was able to hold my own against the 12 gas in the family. I haven't shot my 12 ga. 870 enough. Which right now is my only problem with it. The bernelli was semi auto and I only took a few shots of at a 150 yd target with slugs. I think it was 3 inch sabbots, but I never wanted to shoot that gun again. The 500 was a 20 and makes the 870 heavy in comparison. I'm a left handed shooter, and like the safety on the 500 too. But I'll stick to the 870 because it's what I'm used to and comfortable with. The next shotgun I own will be a semi auto and my 870 will be deer only.

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Old 01-17-2012, 03:14 PM   #34
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I believe the test was 3,000 consecutive rounds with no more than 2 malfunctions.
Wow, if that is the only requirement that doesnt speak well for other manufactuers. Many military tests consisted of various tourtures the gun had to survive and still function. I hope someone one here can find the test paremeters as I have not been able to find them. I shot alot of trap over the years and there are some oldtimers who swear to 1/2 million rounds fired in their carrer. Many of these guys had but one or 2 shotguns. Winchester had one of their 97's fire over 1 million rounds without any failure, so it puzzles me that 3,000 rounds is the requirement now. Many military agencies require their guns to function , half submerged, coated with sand and mud, left for a week in saltwater , ect. In these senerios many of the finest guns in the world fail as they are so percisely built that any debris or grit stopped the fuction. Many a fine gun had to be made "loose" by undersizing parts and liberal chambers, ect so they would function with real world conditions.
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:58 PM   #35
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I feel for the price the 870 is the best pump shotgun out there. The Mossy is a close second. The reason I say that is most of the Mossy's I looked at felt cheep and rattled. What is nice about the 870 and 500 is the fact there is so many after market goodies. Not to bash Browning, Beretta, Winchester, or Ithaca, which are great guns I feel the 870 is easier to turn in to anything you want it to do. I got a rifle slug barrel, 28",18" barrels got an optic on it, Tacti-cool stock and other goodies. I use it for clays, hunting ducks, deer, turkey, small game and home defense. This is my goto gun.

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Old 01-17-2012, 05:21 PM   #36
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I love my Mossberg 590A1. I went with the front bead "sight." If I had it to do over again, I'd get the model with the rifle sights. Not the Ghost Ring sights, though. That model takes away the option to add a red dot sight on the receiver. The rifle sights version still leaves the top alone and gives you the option of aimed slugs.

Mossberg all the way!!

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Old 01-17-2012, 07:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 30-30remchester View Post
Wow, if that is the only requirement that doesnt speak well for other manufactuers. Many military tests consisted of various tourtures the gun had to survive and still function. I hope someone one here can find the test paremeters as I have not been able to find them. I shot alot of trap over the years and there are some oldtimers who swear to 1/2 million rounds fired in their carrer. Many of these guys had but one or 2 shotguns. Winchester had one of their 97's fire over 1 million rounds without any failure, so it puzzles me that 3,000 rounds is the requirement now. Many military agencies require their guns to function , half submerged, coated with sand and mud, left for a week in saltwater , ect. In these senerios many of the finest guns in the world fail as they are so percisely built that any debris or grit stopped the fuction. Many a fine gun had to be made "loose" by undersizing parts and liberal chambers, ect so they would function with real world conditions.
The test also included baking, freezing and dropping the guns among other things. This is the U.S Military we're talking about, do you really think they would pop off 3,000 rounds and conclude the test?
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:10 PM   #38
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I feel for the price the 870 is the best pump shotgun out there. The Mossy is a close second. The reason I say that is most of the Mossy's I looked at felt cheep and rattled. What is nice about the 870 and 500 is the fact there is so many after market goodies. Not to bash Browning, Beretta, Winchester, or Ithaca, which are great guns I feel the 870 is easier to turn in to anything you want it to do. I got a rifle slug barrel, 28",18" barrels got an optic on it, Tacti-cool stock and other goodies. I use it for clays, hunting ducks, deer, turkey, small game and home defense. This is my goto gun.
I believe the somewhat looseness of the of the action is actually a feature. It enables the firearm to still function while its caked it mud, sand etc. I could be wrong. But I can definitely see why some may not care for it though.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:24 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gmaster456 View Post
I believe the somewhat looseness of the of the action is actually a feature. It enables the firearm to still function while its caked it mud, sand etc. I could be wrong. But I can definitely see why some may not care for it though.
If hunting I like it to be quiet.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:31 PM   #40
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huh. I could have sworn... Ok then, Ithaca 37!

Edit: The company DID go under in 2005 but was purchased in 2007 and revitalized. It's also been restructured and traded hands several times.
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