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Old 08-05-2013, 05:17 PM   #11
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I can't speak for every gun or shooter, but I don't have any of the problems in the video. If I did I wouldn't still own it.

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Old 08-05-2013, 05:51 PM   #12
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Let's be fair!

First, the facts.

1. Almost every one of us has grown up with either the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. We have learned on these guns, got comfortable with them, hunted with them, and some even have life-saving stories with them. We are not really comfortable with a shorter plastic gun!

2. The fit, function, balance and feel of the KSG or UTG are completely different and cannot be compared to our two standards. They have to be evaluated as a completely separate platform.

3. There are gun gurus that have evaluated these platforms and found nothing wrong with them. Some have even preferred them over our two above standards, Mossy and Rem.

4. These new platforms are brand new in design and will undoubtedly go through changes to fix problems. It is a first generation attempt and a completely new design.

Could it be possible that the differences are causing a prejudice when evaluating these new style of firearms? Are we trying to evaluate a brand new design against well-established, seventh or eighth generation firearms? Do they deserve that level of criticism, or should they be considered in their own "specialty" category? I doubt we will see these in the field taking duck on the wing loaded with 3" magnum steel shot! Other than the fact that they use 12 gauge ammunition, this weapons platform is not, and is not trying to be, a challenger to your Mossy or Rem 870.

I think if we evaluate them fairly for what they are and where they are in development, we might see a different weapon.

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Old 08-05-2013, 06:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
Let's be fair!

First, the facts.

1. Almost every one of us has grown up with either the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. We have learned on these guns, got comfortable with them, hunted with them, and some even have life-saving stories with them. We are not really comfortable with a shorter plastic gun!

2. The fit, function, balance and feel of the KSG or UTG are completely different and cannot be compared to our two standards. They have to be evaluated as a completely separate platform.

3. There are gun gurus that have evaluated these platforms and found nothing wrong with them. Some have even preferred them over our two above standards, Mossy and Rem.

4. These new platforms are brand new in design and will undoubtedly go through changes to fix problems. It is a first generation attempt and a completely new design.

Could it be possible that the differences are causing a prejudice when evaluating these new style of firearms? Are we trying to evaluate a brand new design against well-established, seventh or eighth generation firearms? Do they deserve that level of criticism, or should they be considered in their own "specialty" category? I doubt we will see these in the field taking duck on the wing loaded with 3" magnum steel shot! Other than the fact that they use 12 gauge ammunition, this weapons platform is not, and is not trying to be, a challenger to your Mossy or Rem 870.

I think if we evaluate them fairly for what they are and where they are in development, we might see a different weapon.
If they are in development then that's one thing but once they are released as a production model by the manufacturer then it's fair to compare them to anything else available. I'm assuming that your belief is that these guns are more military operations geared than hunting, I would agree. However if I were in need of a shotgun to use on a military operation, these 2 would not be on my list because they are not reliable enough from the reviews I have seen. Maybe they will get better but if we are comparing what's available today then it doesn't matter if the 870 is an 8th generation or not, it's only about what it's capable of doing in the field.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:49 PM   #14
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I bought a new Kel Tec P3at. I was trying to find out what was wrong with it. A guy that owned a shotgun popped into the kel tec owners group. The rail fell off his pump the first time he took it out to shoot. My P-3AT apparently needed to be fluffed and buffed. I sent it back to them after running over 200 rounds through it. It never "broke in." Kel tec did send a return label. I never did have to pay for shipping throughout the ordeal.

After a couple months of waiting I finally got the gun back. Kel Tec polished the rails and they did smooth the trigger out. However, they cut the feed ramp into a tiny triangle. I didn't see how the gun would run like that. I shot 2 magazines of ammo out of the gun and I was right. I now owned a single shot. At this point I have had enough of their bull so I called my credit card company and filed a complaint against kel tec. The consumer advocate from my credit card company arranged a conference call between kel tec, her and myself.

Kel tec tried to claim that winchester ammo was the problem. I said that wasn't acceptable the ammo had no defects. The advocate from the CC company asked was there a warning not to use winchester ammo in the owners manual. Kel Tec said no there wasn't. She replied that winchester is one of the most popular brands of ammo in the US. If your guns don't shoot it consumers should be warned beforehand.

We all agreed to send the gun back one more time. Kel Tec put a new barrel in the gun and polished the rails a little more. Almost 5 months to the day I purchased the gun it came back in working order.

I can't say don't buy a Kel Tec because I own a P11 and a P3AT that both run well and will eat any type of ammo. I can say if you are not a tinkerer or a gunsmith don't buy one. You will run into problems and you might have to fix them yourself.

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Old 08-05-2013, 07:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
Let's be fair!

First, the facts.

1. Almost every one of us has grown up with either the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. We have learned on these guns, got comfortable with them, hunted with them, and some even have life-saving stories with them. We are not really comfortable with a shorter plastic gun!

2. The fit, function, balance and feel of the KSG or UTG are completely different and cannot be compared to our two standards. They have to be evaluated as a completely separate platform.

3. There are gun gurus that have evaluated these platforms and found nothing wrong with them. Some have even preferred them over our two above standards, Mossy and Rem.

4. These new platforms are brand new in design and will undoubtedly go through changes to fix problems. It is a first generation attempt and a completely new design.

Could it be possible that the differences are causing a prejudice when evaluating these new style of firearms? Are we trying to evaluate a brand new design against well-established, seventh or eighth generation firearms? Do they deserve that level of criticism, or should they be considered in their own "specialty" category? I doubt we will see these in the field taking duck on the wing loaded with 3" magnum steel shot! Other than the fact that they use 12 gauge ammunition, this weapons platform is not, and is not trying to be, a challenger to your Mossy or Rem 870.

I think if we evaluate them fairly for what they are and where they are in development, we might see a different weapon.
Many firearms that are absolutely great today ran into hitches during their development. But the manufacturer fixed those problems and changed the way they manufactured the guns. Kel Tec on the other hand keeps shipping weapons with the same problems for years on end. They make no changes because a lot of people buy a gun shoot it a few times and never use it again or they just sell it. Either way kel tec has there money. Most people don't dig their heels in and tell kel tec I want a working firearm or a refund.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagermeister
Kel-Tec KSG is the best shotgun out there. I think the DOD should give one to each service member. Kel-Tec once again delivers high quality for the price. I would put my life in the hands of this excellent company.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVVii2K1j5k
Really Jag? Well now a 14 round capacity is nice, but you have to FIND one first. Since the Zimmerman/ Martin Incident,....you can't find one Kel-Tec in any store unless its on someone's hip or ankle!! Oh,..the LGS who Gouges people has a PMR-30... For $1100.00......
Giving Kel Tec a chance to repair a gun is fine. Guess they have a lot of guns to fix. I HAD the .22Mag carbine. Thought eventually I'd get the pistol since they use the same magazines(20 or 30 shot). Took a loss on the re-sale. I'll wait for the 10/22 in 22mag.
I do know 1 person with nothing bad to say about his PF9 other then shooting off the front sight the first day. Calls Kel Tec up and gets a new sight shipped. Figures he will do it himself or at worse take it to his LGS. After replacing the sight he shot it off again a few sessions later. He decided to CRAZY glue one of his sons BB's and paint it day-glo green with his wife's nail polish.
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:52 PM   #17
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We are going to have a couple of them for sale at our Friends of the NRA Banquet on Oct 3rd.

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Old 08-06-2013, 03:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
Many firearms that are absolutely great today ran into hitches during their development. But the manufacturer fixed those problems and changed the way they manufactured the guns. Kel Tec on the other hand keeps shipping weapons with the same problems for years on end. They make no changes because a lot of people buy a gun shoot it a few times and never use it again or they just sell it. Either way kel tec has there money. Most people don't dig their heels in and tell kel tec I want a working firearm or a refund.
That is a consumer's right to get a working item! And you're right, not fixing well-known problems is irresponsible. I would scream bloody murder if my brand new shotgun didn't feed the most popular ammunition in the country! If KSG owners banded together and complained like John_Deer, it would take minutes for Kel-Tec to change manufacturing! Unfortunately, over 90% of dissatisfied users never say anything to the company but will tell anyone else that will listen.

Don't get me wrong, everyone has an "I hate X brand because..." story of one sort or another. Manufacturers that don't fix problems deserve their bad reputation and the headaches that go with it. I don't own the KSG, I just feel that it's a different kind of weapon from the popular brands and a direct comparison would find any weapon in the same position failing.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:35 PM   #19
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Really Jag? Well now a 14 round capacity is nice, but you have to FIND one first. Since the Zimmerman/ Martin Incident,....you can't find one Kel-Tec in any store unless its on someone's hip or ankle!! Oh,..the LGS who Gouges people has a PMR-30... For $1100.00......
Giving Kel Tec a chance to repair a gun is fine. Guess they have a lot of guns to fix. I HAD the .22Mag carbine. Thought eventually I'd get the pistol since they use the same magazines(20 or 30 shot). Took a loss on the re-sale. I'll wait for the 10/22 in 22mag.
I do know 1 person with nothing bad to say about his PF9 other then shooting off the front sight the first day. Calls Kel Tec up and gets a new sight shipped. Figures he will do it himself or at worse take it to his LGS. After replacing the sight he shot it off again a few sessions later. He decided to CRAZY glue one of his sons BB's and paint it day-glo green with his wife's nail polish.
?? I was being sarcastic. Please see my second post on giving the gun to Al Qaeda.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagermeister

?? I was being sarcastic. Please see my second post on giving the gun to Al Qaeda.
No worries. It would be NICE if we could FIND one...
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