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-   -   Kel-Tec 12GA (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f26/kel-tec-12ga-62305/)

silverado113 04-11-2012 04:12 PM

Kel-Tec 12GA
 
So the new Kel-Tec 12GA is in stock at buds.com It's currently on auction and the winning bid right now is $1301 :eek: I know supply and demand but damn!

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/auction_info.php/products_id/74682/auctions_id/2464/page/1/auction_show/1

dajerseyrat 04-15-2012 06:57 PM

I can tell you this much about the gun, dont buy it. I waited months for mine and recently took delivery of it and as any excited boy with a new toy would do,I cleaned it and I went straight to the range. First Impression,it looks cool and that’s where the good impressions end.

The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load and you will most likely cut your finger doing so. Now imagine trying to load this thing in the field under high stress situations. I dont see how it is possible to combat load a round into the chamber without turning the gun upside down. The magazine selector switch is very hard to manipulate from right to left on my gun and would need to be in the neutral position to attempt a combat load, which is one more extra step which would most likely get you shot in the face in real combat..

Chambered and fired first round, and racked it back only to encounter a double feed jam! The gun failed to extract the spent shell and attempted to load not 1 but 2 additional rounds at once, so a total of 3 rounds were stuck in there, leaving me with a 26″ long baseball bat to defend myself with. This type of jam is simply impossible to clear in a combat situation and would have cost me my life. It takes several minutes to clear the jams once they happen. I fired another round and it did the same exact thing. In fact the first 6-7 attempts the gun jammed the same way. Thinking it was me possibly limp wristing the slide, I allowed 4 other colleges to attempt to shoot it and it did the same thing for all 4 of them, including one range master/fire arms instructor. So it was not me. Now I am far from a gun expert, but I have been in law enforcement for over 15 years and qualify 2 times a year with our shotgun and have put thousands of shotgun rounds down range and never once had a shotgun jam on me.

I notified Kel-tec who told me they wanted me to return the gun which keep in mind was just purchased a day or two prior, and would send me a call tag and take a look at it when they get a chance. That was over 4-5 days ago, no call tag, no returned email or phone call.

I fired the gun several more times since and the gun now religiously jams on me at least once out of every 10-15 rounds.

To make things worse I attempted one more time today to shoot it utilizing a forward pistol grip which subsequently broke 2 teeth of the rail within the first 3 shots….

Kel-tec stated this gun would revolutionize the industry, and if by revolutionize they mean get a ton of people killed, then yes they are doing it. At this point I fell that Kel Tec is utilizing people like me to do their R&D for them while making big money on markups.

The design is really stupid when you look at it in detail and how the rounds are extracted and rechambered via one exit which increases the jamming probability much more than a side eject. The extracted round has to pass downward past the rounds in the magazine, then a new round needs to be fed upward. In my opinion this X-crossing effect is a poor design prone to failure and jamming. There is no way this gun would ever stand up to the abuse of actual combat performance either for police or military.

Save your money and buy a real shotgun this thing is a video game cool looking novelty, and I dont predict Kel Tec being around the marketplace much longer with failures like this weapon.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...-17-08_245.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...-48-33_583.jpg

Now reliable sources tell me that out of 100 guns shipped so far, the have had 8 failures not including mine which would be 9. Now that's assuming all 100 guns are in the hands of end users and not sitting on shelves in gun stores being gouged for 3X's the MSRP by these animals...That's also a conservative number released by KelTec to my source, which means the actual failure rate may be much higher than that..Even so lets assume 10 guns out of 100 had issues thus far, that is an dismal 10% failure rate!!! What do you think the Military or police personnel would do with a 10% failure rate? It would not make the initial testing and be cut from their arsenal for sure. Lets take our assumption 1 step further, and realize that out of the 100 guns shipped, all 100 of them are in the hands of recreational shooters who shoot in a controlled environment and very few of these guns will see actual combat or real life scenarios. When you look at the fact that 10% of these guns have failed under those conditions and almost immediately, it is quite disturbing.....Put this gun in a harsh dessert or jungle environment and the failure rate will skyrocket IMHO...

Keep the Keltec in the video games, because in real life you dont have extra lives..

silverado113 04-17-2012 01:38 AM

Wow man sorry for your luck. I wanted to see how it would be cause it looked ackward in the video when trying to switch magazines and the action on it. Thanks for the info. I'll definitely pass it along.

jjfuller1 04-17-2012 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dajerseyrat (Post 771827)
I can tell you this much about the gun, dont buy it. I waited months for mine and recently took delivery of it and as any excited boy with a new toy would do,I cleaned it and I went straight to the range. First Impression,it looks cool and that’s where the good impressions end.

The gun is very awkward almost to the point of difficult to load and you will most likely cut your finger doing so. Now imagine trying to load this thing in the field under high stress situations. I dont see how it is possible to combat load a round into the chamber without turning the gun upside down. The magazine selector switch is very hard to manipulate from right to left on my gun and would need to be in the neutral position to attempt a combat load, which is one more extra step which would most likely get you shot in the face in real combat..

Chambered and fired first round, and racked it back only to encounter a double feed jam! The gun failed to extract the spent shell and attempted to load not 1 but 2 additional rounds at once, so a total of 3 rounds were stuck in there, leaving me with a 26″ long baseball bat to defend myself with. This type of jam is simply impossible to clear in a combat situation and would have cost me my life. It takes several minutes to clear the jams once they happen. I fired another round and it did the same exact thing. In fact the first 6-7 attempts the gun jammed the same way. Thinking it was me possibly limp wristing the slide, I allowed 4 other colleges to attempt to shoot it and it did the same thing for all 4 of them, including one range master/fire arms instructor. So it was not me. Now I am far from a gun expert, but I have been in law enforcement for over 15 years and qualify 2 times a year with our shotgun and have put thousands of shotgun rounds down range and never once had a shotgun jam on me.

I notified Kel-tec who told me they wanted me to return the gun which keep in mind was just purchased a day or two prior, and would send me a call tag and take a look at it when they get a chance. That was over 4-5 days ago, no call tag, no returned email or phone call.

I fired the gun several more times since and the gun now religiously jams on me at least once out of every 10-15 rounds.

To make things worse I attempted one more time today to shoot it utilizing a forward pistol grip which subsequently broke 2 teeth of the rail within the first 3 shots….

Kel-tec stated this gun would revolutionize the industry, and if by revolutionize they mean get a ton of people killed, then yes they are doing it. At this point I fell that Kel Tec is utilizing people like me to do their R&D for them while making big money on markups.

The design is really stupid when you look at it in detail and how the rounds are extracted and rechambered via one exit which increases the jamming probability much more than a side eject. The extracted round has to pass downward past the rounds in the magazine, then a new round needs to be fed upward. In my opinion this X-crossing effect is a poor design prone to failure and jamming. There is no way this gun would ever stand up to the abuse of actual combat performance either for police or military.

Save your money and buy a real shotgun this thing is a video game cool looking novelty, and I dont predict Kel Tec being around the marketplace much longer with failures like this weapon.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...-17-08_245.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...-48-33_583.jpg

Now reliable sources tell me that out of 100 guns shipped so far, the have had 8 failures not including mine which would be 9. Now that's assuming all 100 guns are in the hands of end users and not sitting on shelves in gun stores being gouged for 3X's the MSRP by these animals...That's also a conservative number released by KelTec to my source, which means the actual failure rate may be much higher than that..Even so lets assume 10 guns out of 100 had issues thus far, that is an dismal 10% failure rate!!! What do you think the Military or police personnel would do with a 10% failure rate? It would not make the initial testing and be cut from their arsenal for sure. Lets take our assumption 1 step further, and realize that out of the 100 guns shipped, all 100 of them are in the hands of recreational shooters who shoot in a controlled environment and very few of these guns will see actual combat or real life scenarios. When you look at the fact that 10% of these guns have failed under those conditions and almost immediately, it is quite disturbing.....Put this gun in a harsh dessert or jungle environment and the failure rate will skyrocket IMHO...

Keep the Keltec in the video games, because in real life you dont have extra lives..

thanks for the info.. when you get a second swing by the intro page and say hi.

Polygon 04-17-2012 03:15 AM

I've been wanting one purely for home defense. Mainly for it's size. I'm not going to even consider paying more than $600 for one though. Oh, and dajerseyrat, Kel Tec isn't making the markup on these. It's the dealers that are. Still, thanks for the information.

dajerseyrat 04-18-2012 04:01 PM

Some funny news, not only has Keltec still not responded to my issues, I was banned for posting my review on the Keltec Owners Group Forums...LOL the owners of Keltec firearms cant handle negative comments about their firearms..hahahaha..

silverado113 04-18-2012 10:38 PM

Wow. I guess they just lost two customers now.

dajerseyrat 04-19-2012 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverado113 (Post 775057)
Wow. I guess they just lost two customers now.

Well Im too late I already bought mine..:(

ScottA 04-19-2012 02:00 AM

Sounds like you we better wait a year before checking these out.


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