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Old 01-01-2014, 03:22 AM   #11
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Ok, so did you train with your handguns or shotgun or both at Thunder Ranch?

In other words, which weapon do you have the most familiarity and trigger time with?

If your shotgun isn't immediately available to you, are you going to try to retrieve it if someone breaks into your apartment or use the pistol that you have on your hip to get to your daughter?

For me, the priority would be my daughter and son. The shotgun is nice to have, but it's also a lot easier to grab than the pistol is and it's harder to maneuver in confined spaces. It is easier to aim because it's shoulder mounted, but that's about it. Regarding caliber and ammunition choices, I wouldn't load the shotgun with ammo that didn't do a better job than regular handgun ammo.

How much hand-to-hand training do you and your wife have? What would she do if someone grabbed her shotgun while she was going around a corner and looking for her daughter. Will she need a hand free to grab her child with? Most apartments are pretty small and a break in will be a surprise engagement with very little time to go and get the shotty, so what's wrong with using the handgun and disabling the shotgun (just removing the bolt or firing pin so it's kid safe) if you can't immediately use it to defend yourself with?

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Old 01-01-2014, 03:24 AM   #12
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http://www.amazon.com/Minute-Men-Gun-Racks-Shotgun/dp/B00DJSTNGM/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_2_1
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:32 AM   #14
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Our training is with our 9mm hard guns. We were taught to check the guns before you carry it and also when you put it up at night. Both 9mm handguns are locked from our daughter but we can get to them quickly if we need them at night. The apartment has an alarm and is in a decent area of town. We are not worried or in panic mode, we just want to be prepared and safe while finding the best home defense solution for us.

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Old 01-01-2014, 03:59 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
Our training is with our 9mm hard guns. We were taught to check the guns before you carry it and also when you put it up at night. Both 9mm handguns are locked from our daughter but we can get to them quickly if we need them at night. The apartment has an alarm and is in a decent area of town. We are not worried or in panic mode, we just want to be prepared and safe while finding the best home defense solution for us.
Ok, fair enough.

So, based on what you just told me if it were me I'd use the weapons I have had the training to use properly, which would be your handguns. The shotgun is something that can be retrieved if you have time, but you probably won't have time. Personally, after I have my children and wife I'm not going to go wandering around the house to get a long gun, I'm going to call the police and let them deal with the intruder.

Although I'm certain you've already been told this if you attended Thunder Ranch, the best defense is and always will be awareness and your alarms and paying attention to when you enter and leave the residence or your vehicles.

When you have time and money to do so, get some training for your shotgun. Until that time, stick with what you know.

Also, if/when you do decide to use your shotgun as part of your home defense plan, see a reputable martial arts instructor in your area who can teach you about how to disarm someone with a long gun and how quickly someone with a knife can reach you. Then you'll have a better understanding of what you need to do to stop someone from taking your gun away from you. In other words, the training you received with the handgun is great and if you have it and can employ it you should use it, but realize that this will happen very fast, with very little warning, and that someone with a simple kitchen knife can be a deadly threat inside the confines of an apartment, even to someone armed with a shotgun. So, get some hand-to-hand training to complement your handguns, with an emphasis on understanding disarms and use of knives.

I'm not trying to discourage you from using the shotgun, just saying that if it were me the first priority is my wife and kids, hence the handgun on my hip and from there if we all happen to be in the same room as the gun safe then perhaps one of us can think about retrieving a carbine or shotgun from the safe while the other watches the door. If it's just me or my wife, we're not going to try to get the shotgun or carbine while an intruder is in the house with us unless our handguns aren't functional and we can't escape from the house.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:34 AM   #16
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Thank you for the great advice. There is a local martial arts school in the area. I will look in to that as well.

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Old 01-01-2014, 04:35 AM   #17
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Apartments have a demising wall between each unit. A demising wall is a one hour fire rated wall which is two layers of 5/8" drywall on each side. I really doubt raw lead #00 buckshot will penetrate 2 1/4" inches of drywall. Buckshot flattens out very easily. All bets are off if you use plated buckshot or buckshot made from another material beside lead. Plated #00 buck will go right through 2 1/4" of drywall. If you choose plated buckshot I would use #4 buckshot.

You need to train your child to be safe around guns. There is no device to childproof a shotgun that you can open quickly under great duress. Get your kid a BB gun. Take him shooting with you. Teach him/her firearms safety just like he/she is handling real gun. The child will also see that real guns are dangerous and leave them alone.

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Old 01-01-2014, 04:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
Apartments have a demising wall between each unit. A demising wall is a one hour fire rated wall which is two layers of 5/8" drywall on each side. I really doubt raw lead #00 buckshot will penetrate 2 1/4" inches of drywall. Buckshot flattens out very easily. All bets are off if you use plated buckshot or buckshot made from another material beside lead. Plated #00 buck will go right through 2 1/4" of drywall. If you choose plated buckshot I would use #4 buckshot.

You need to train your child to be safe around guns. There is no device to childproof a shotgun that you can open quickly under great duress. Get your kid a BB gun. Take him shooting with you. Teach him/her firearms safety just like he/she is handling real gun. The child will also see that real guns are dangerous and leave them alone.
Someone already tested your theory out regarding how much sheet rock 00 buck will penetrate:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

You'd be surprised at what standard lead buckshot will go through, whether #00 or #4.

I'm sure plated balls would have slightly better penetration with less deformation.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:26 AM   #19
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If you have a drill and a dremel, a secure shotgun mount is within your reach for less than $40. Go to wal mart, and pick up a Sentry lock box. Cut out a section of each side wall ( non hinge or lock walls) so it fits over the receiver, drill mounting holes, and attach it to a wall stud in the closet.

Some of the lock boxes come with a key lock only, some come with a key or code lock that runs on AA batteries. Pick the one that best fits your needs, do the mods to fit your shotgun, mount it, and pray you never have cause to use the shotgun for HD. Or any other gun for that matter.

As others have pointed out, get as much training as you can, and start your daughter on the road to safe gun handling skills as soon as both of you feel she is ready. My daughter fired her first gun at age 8, but she has help out with cleaning and maintaining the family firearms since she was 5. Now that she is 16, there is not a gun in this i would not feel comfortable with her handling it while hunting or on the range. Start her out as young as both of you feel she is ready, and if the SD or hand to hand training classes have a class for kids get her in it as well. One can never have too much training.

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Old 01-01-2014, 09:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMcCool
I bet dango could make you one of these. Heck, I want some of these. Hey dango, how much would something like this cost?
That looked awesome till I looked up the 380$ price tag for a 18"x9" and 900$ 52"x12". There's probably 15$ in materials there....
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