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Old 10-26-2012, 02:23 AM   #41
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I bought an H&R Pardner Pump with an 18" barrel only because it was cheap (about $160 @ a large outdoors outlet.)
I was going to buy another "state-of-the-art" combat shotgun later on, when I could decide which was the best for home defense.
That was a few years ago. I still have the Pardner Pump. I still have not found a shotgun which fulfills my needs better than the $160 Chinese gun.
I have owned a number of other SD shotguns, i.e. Mossbergs, Winchesters, et al. But I still prefer the Pardner Pump (P&P).
The P&P is ALL STEEL, unlike Winchester, Mossbergs and the Maverick (I would not have a Maverick if you gave me one!). They all have alloy receivers, and that turns me off. I want all steel - like my AK-47s. In fact, I think of my P&P as the AK47 of shotguns. They are pretty much unbreakable. And I like a heavy shotgun because I shoot 12-pellet, 00 buck in a 2-3/4 hull. Yes, it kicks like a mule, but that's the best shotgun round IMO for SD use.
The short 18" P&P handles like a handgun, is easy to hit with and reload, has a great safety and costs less than half of what a Remington 870 costs. Yes, it's heavy - but if your weapon is too heavy, you are too damn weak! Start hitting the kettlebells!
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #42
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Glad to see this discussion reopened. I believe that a sawed-off at both ends, 12 gauge, with external hammers and loaded with 00 buckshot is the best. If you can't hold the front end down add a pistol grip (a.k.a. Thompson machine gun). West VA law is 18 inch barrel and 26 inch overall. The latest change says that you do not have to retreat before you shoot! Of course the very first item necessary is the guts to pull the trigger. If not, better to not be armed.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:41 PM   #43
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Two points about shotguns for HOME defence.
1. Short shotguns are pretty much worthless. While on the SWAT team we tried them as entry weapons and did a lot of training and evaluation (shooting) with them and found the hit probability is VERY low with this platform EVEN WITH a lot of training.
2. When making a decision on what 'shot' to use you MUST consider the ballistics of ONE pellet only. That said you want a shot size that will (a) give you the penetration need to defeat heavy clothing and still reach the vitals of a human. (b)BUT will not penetrate interior or exterior walls and have enough energy to kill or injure 'friendlies'.
After A LOT of testing and time spent in the morg I have (and most agree with my findings) found the best shot size is BB. Certainly nothing smaller than #2 lead, or larger than #4 buckshot.
Now if you live rural and don't have any children in the home it is a mute point.
Hope this helped.
Jim
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
2. When making a decision on what 'shot' to use you MUST consider the ballistics of ONE pellet only. That said you want a shot size that will (a) give you the penetration need to defeat heavy clothing and still reach the vitals of a human. (b)BUT will not penetrate interior or exterior walls and have enough energy to kill or injure 'friendlies'.
After A LOT of testing and time spent in the morg I have (and most agree with my findings) found the best shot size is BB. Certainly nothing smaller than #2 lead, or larger than #4 buckshot.
Jim
I profoundly agree with this explicitly for home defense.

Reason being range: Open Cylinder shotgun optimal range of 15 meters. That certainly works in my home and anywhere from it in a defensive posture. Lotta yahoos just keep drawling "00 Buck."

As an all-purpose defense load I would certainly go factory #0 Buckshot loads. #1 Buck barring those. Double-ought is relegated to backup for its universal availability and appeal as well as relative inexpense especially during hunting season (which it's fine for).

Back in the day it used to be Remington Express #BB. That factory lead load went the way of the dinosaur in a conspiracy between anti-gunners and shotgun manufacturers leveraging migratory birds. The load I have in my HD shotgun today is factory 1 oz. #4 Buckshot. A square load. 21 vs. 27 pellets at the standard velocity. The term hadn't been invented at the time but in America today I suppose we'd call these Reduced Recoil and pay more for less 'casue they're "tacticool." LOL

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Old 10-28-2012, 09:02 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
I profoundly agree with this explicitly for home defense.

Reason being range: Open Cylinder shotgun optimal range of 15 meters. That certainly works in my home and anywhere from it in a defensive posture. Lotta yahoos just keep drawling "00 Buck."

As an all-purpose defense load I would certainly go factory #0 Buckshot loads. #1 Buck barring those. Double-ought is relegated to backup for its universal availability and appeal as well as relative inexpense especially during hunting season (which it's fine for).

Back in the day it used to be Remington Express #BB. That factory lead load went the way of the dinosaur in a conspiracy between anti-gunners and shotgun manufacturers leveraging migratory birds. The load I have in my HD shotgun today is factory 1 oz. #4 Buckshot. A square load. 21 vs. 27 pellets at the standard velocity. The term hadn't been invented at the time but in America today I suppose we'd call these Reduced Recoil and pay more for less 'casue they're "tacticool." LOL
I've made about 120 "reduced recoil" slugs by converting melting birdshot into a slug and stuffing it back in. Cheapest way to do it without a press. It can be done with a propane cylinder, a mold, a pair of pliers, and a micro screwdriver. I've always failed to understand why a slug sells for 4 times the price of a dove load.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:00 AM   #46
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Hey guys with a mag extension tube for a mossburg 500 fit a mavrick 88
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:11 AM   #47
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Hey guys with a mag extension tube for a mossburg 500 fit a mavrick 88
Both tubes have a 1" outside diameter (not exact measured it with a tape) Maverick and mossberg barrels are interchangeable. I don't see what can go wrong.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:17 AM   #48
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my home defence shotgun is simple but effective a Winchester SXP Defender with an 18.5" barrel, tube holds 5 rounds and it has an elastic shell holder holding 5 more. loaded with #4 birdshot in the tube and 5 OO buckshot in the shell holder on the buttstock. nothing fancy, but will get the job done! simple is sometimes much better.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:23 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Crow

Both tubes have a 1" outside diameter (not exact measured it with a tape) Maverick and mossberg barrels are interchangeable. I don't see what can go wrong.
Thanks man
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:24 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
my home defence shotgun is simple but effective a Winchester SXP Defender with an 18.5" barrel, tube holds 5 rounds and it has an elastic shell holder holding 5 more. loaded with #4 birdshot in the tube and 5 OO buckshot in the shell holder on the buttstock. nothing fancy, but will get the job done! simple is sometimes much better.
It has been proven time and again the #4 bird shot is not suitable for self defense unless you are defending yourself against birds. The first two up in my 12 gauge are #4 buck backed by 5 #00.
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