Home Defense With a Shotgun
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Shotgun Discussion > Home Defense With a Shotgun

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2010, 07:49 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA,America
Posts: 18
Default Home Defense With a Shotgun

Home Defense with a Shotgun: A few things I’ve learned over the years.

For self-defense inside the home at short distances, the brand of ammo, type of choke, or size of (#1 or larger) buckshot isn't as critical as shot placement from a well-fitted 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with a simple weapon light (i.e. Streamlight TLR1 or etc...). An open Cylinder (C) or Improved Cylinder (IC) choke with Low Recoil (LR) buckshot is preferred for quicker follow-up shots.

While #1 buckshot offers the best overall terminal performance for civilians, LE Agencies still prefer hardened 00 buckshot due to its superior penetration. Sales is the driving factor as to why there are not more #1 buckshot loads to choose from for civilians. The International Wound Ballistics Association advocates “#1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.”

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?
Home Defense Shotgun Ammo
12 gauge
The Box O' Truth #45 - Shotgun Chokes and Buckshot Part Two - Page 1

As for a shotgun, keep things simple! A lot of fancy stuff on a Home-Defense (HD) shotgun isn't necessary! A plain-jane / reliable pump or semi-auto shotgun with a short barrel will do just fine! (SIMPLICITY … and … RELIABLILITY are the operative words here.) An open-choked 18 1/2" - 20" barrel is ideal and an illuminated front bead sight provides the fastest sight picture.

Make sure the rear stock fits you OK (shorter aftermarket stocks are available from Hogue, Remington, or Knoxx Industries). A shorter LOP (Length of Pull) stock might be needed so that things can quickly line-up (straight) using YOUR natural Point of Aim (POA).

Pattern your shotgun at the range with buckshot. Practicing with #8 target loads is perfectly acceptable and saves a lot of wear and tear on the shoulder.

Pistol grips and slings reduce your reactionary and follow-up times (They have proven to be a liability inside the home!). Slings are useful over longer distances outside the home, but get in the way in close quarters. If you insist on a sling, get a quick-disconnect model for removal inside the home. A full-size stock with a pistol grip is a better overall setup than just a small stub mounted to the receiver. Most civilians will do just fine with a standard OEM stock that fits their size.

Federal's LE 9-pellet LE132-00 load @ 1,145 fps with LR Flight Control (FC) wads offers outstanding performance in and outside the home (civilian version is PD132-00). These hardened copper plated buckshot pellets penetrate plenty and full-power loads are not needed unless your semi-auto won't function reliably with LR shells or you need extended range in more open areas. The full-power version of 00 buckshot with FC is LE127-00 @ 1,325 fps.

LE - Tactical Buckshot

"Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

"Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the birdshot will only penetrate about 4 inches."

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

The whole point of self-defense (SD) is to IMMEDIATELY stop the threat and a shallow wound from birdshot doesn't put as many odds in your favor as buckshot does! While still deadly at a slower pace, birdshot is more likely to leave the BG additional time to inflict harm (than buckshot). Use what you want for SD, as it's your life on the line. Most people want to put more odds in their favor and buckshot is more effective at preserving life than birdshot.
__________________

Aim for the Thoracic Triangle area between the armpits and base of throat.

147_Grain is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 12-07-2010, 11:09 PM   #2
JTJ
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JTJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lake Havasu,Arizona
Posts: 6,553
Liked 2361 Times on 1279 Posts
Likes Given: 679

Default

Weight Diameter
#TriBall(12 Ga.) Buck 20.41 g (315 gr.) 15.24 mm (0.60")
#0000 Buck 5.51 g (85 gr.) 9.40 mm (0.380")
#000 Buck 4.54 g (70 gr.) 9.14 mm (0.360")
#00 Buck 3.49 g (53.8 gr.) 8.38 mm (0.330")
#0 Buck 3.18 g (49 gr.) 8.13 mm (0.320")
#1 Buck 2.62 g (40.5 gr.) 7.62 mm (0.300")
#2 Buck 1.91 g (29.4 gr.) 6.86 mm (0.270")
#3 Buck 1.52 g (23.4 gr.) 6.35 mm (0.250")
#4 Buck 1.34 g (20.7 gr.) 6.09 mm (0.240")
#FF Buck 1.18 g (18.2 gr.) 5.84 mm (0.230")
#F (TTT) Buck 1.05 g (16.2 gr.) 5.59 mm (0.220")
#TT Buck 0.98 g (15.1 gr.) 5.33 mm (0.210")
#T Buck 0.89 g (13.7 gr.) 5.08 mm (0.200")
#BBB 0.66 g (10.2 gr.) 4.82 mm (0.190")
#BB 0.57 g (8.8 gr.) 4.57 mm (0.180")
#B 0.48 g (7.4 gr.) 4.32 mm (0.170")
2 3.76 mm (0.148")
4 3.28 mm (0.129")
5 3.05 mm (0.120")
6 2.77 mm (0.109")
7.5 2.39 mm (0.094")
8 2.26 mm (0.089")
8.5 2.16 mm (0.085")
9 2.01 mm (0.079")
12 1.3 mm (0.05")

__________________

Patron Member NRA
"I would not be an old man if I had not been an armed young man." JTJ
I was taught to respect my elders but they are getting harder to find.

JTJ is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 05:13 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Frederick,MD
Posts: 69
Default

Cabela's just offered Estate brand 00 or #4 buck, 25 rounds, for $12.99. Gonna try some.

Because of overpenetration concerns -- and because I'm far more likely to dispatch a garden-raiding groundhog with it than a bad guy (I hope!) -- I think some #4 birdshot will be the first load or 2 in my pump, then maybe buck. Hope it never comes to needing that. The last thing in the world I ever wanna have to do is shoot someone.

__________________
Steve65 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 07:16 PM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Missileman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Omaha,Nebraska
Posts: 492
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_Grain View Post
Home Defense with a Shotgun: A few things I’ve learned over the years.

For self-defense inside the home at short distances, the brand of ammo, type of choke, or size of (#1 or larger) buckshot isn't as critical as shot placement from a well-fitted 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with a simple weapon light (i.e. Streamlight TLR1 or etc...). An open Cylinder (C) or Improved Cylinder (IC) choke with Low Recoil (LR) buckshot is preferred for quicker follow-up shots.

While #1 buckshot offers the best overall terminal performance for civilians, LE Agencies still prefer hardened 00 buckshot due to its superior penetration. Sales is the driving factor as to why there are not more #1 buckshot loads to choose from for civilians. The International Wound Ballistics Association advocates “#1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.”


Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?
Home Defense Shotgun Ammo
12 gauge
The Box O' Truth #45 - Shotgun Chokes and Buckshot Part Two - Page 1

As for a shotgun, keep things simple! A lot of fancy stuff on a Home-Defense (HD) shotgun isn't necessary! A plain-jane / reliable pump or semi-auto shotgun with a short barrel will do just fine! (SIMPLICITY … and … RELIABLILITY are the operative words here.) An open-choked 18 1/2" - 20" barrel is ideal and an illuminated front bead sight provides the fastest sight picture.

Make sure the rear stock fits you OK (shorter aftermarket stocks are available from Hogue, Remington, or Knoxx Industries). A shorter LOP (Length of Pull) stock might be needed so that things can quickly line-up (straight) using YOUR natural Point of Aim (POA).

Pattern your shotgun at the range with buckshot. Practicing with #8 target loads is perfectly acceptable and saves a lot of wear and tear on the shoulder.

Pistol grips and slings reduce your reactionary and follow-up times (They have proven to be a liability inside the home!). Slings are useful over longer distances outside the home, but get in the way in close quarters. If you insist on a sling, get a quick-disconnect model for removal inside the home. A full-size stock with a pistol grip is a better overall setup than just a small stub mounted to the receiver. Most civilians will do just fine with a standard OEM stock that fits their size.

Federal's LE 9-pellet LE132-00 load @ 1,145 fps with LR Flight Control (FC) wads offers outstanding performance in and outside the home (civilian version is PD132-00). These hardened copper plated buckshot pellets penetrate plenty and full-power loads are not needed unless your semi-auto won't function reliably with LR shells or you need extended range in more open areas. The full-power version of 00 buckshot with FC is LE127-00 @ 1,325 fps.

LE - Tactical Buckshot

"Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

"Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the birdshot will only penetrate about 4 inches."

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

The whole point of self-defense (SD) is to IMMEDIATELY stop the threat and a shallow wound from birdshot doesn't put as many odds in your favor as buckshot does! While still deadly at a slower pace, birdshot is more likely to leave the BG additional time to inflict harm (than buckshot). Use what you want for SD, as it's your life on the line. Most people want to put more odds in their favor and buckshot is more effective at preserving life than birdshot.
Great advice--you are right on!
__________________
Dave

"Adversity does not make a man--it reveals him"
Missileman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 07:36 PM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA,America
Posts: 18
Default

Steve65:

The Estate brand from Federal in buckshot is probably not hardened nor copper plated like Federal's Tactical loads are, so standard #4 buckshot from Estate won't penetrate as much as one would think.

While I strongly suggest buckshot versus birdshot, at least consider upgrading to the heaviest birdshot you can find.

Happy Holidays!

__________________

Aim for the Thoracic Triangle area between the armpits and base of throat.

147_Grain is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2010, 04:56 AM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fairview,CA
Posts: 3
Default

Awesome post! I joined just to comment and ask a few questions...

I took a firearms course a few months back and it was drilled into us that a handgun should be used to fight your way to a long gun. I tend to agree. I would much rather fight it out with an intruder armed with my Remington 870 than any handgun.

The question I have is, what sort of light should I use? I saw this LED flashlight at a gun show recently and the seller was dropping it on the ground, abusing it and had another one in water to show it was waterproof. I found the same light he was selling on Amazon and wanted to know if anyone has one or could offer suggestions, reviews or recommendations.

I'm concerned with the switching on/off of the light. I figure most home invasions happen at night and a weapon light is a must have but I want something I can turn on/off without having to move one hand off of the firearm. Do you think the remote pressure switch would work with the pump action of most shotguns?

I figure for $50 it is quite a bargain compared to a Streamlight without a remote pressure switch or other accessories.

Thoughts?

__________________
eliot-gunner is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2010, 05:06 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Frederick,MD
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_Grain View Post
Steve65:

The Estate brand from Federal in buckshot is probably not hardened nor copper plated like Federal's Tactical loads are, so standard #4 buckshot from Estate won't penetrate as much as one would think.

While I strongly suggest buckshot versus birdshot, at least consider upgrading to the heaviest birdshot you can find.

Happy Holidays!
I'm sure it is not hardened -- but the price is great vs. over a buck a bang for the other stuff. But I can't imagine any #4 or 00 buck not penetrating to a bad guy's vitals at HD distances. If I were hunting or shooting at bad guys at > 20 yards I would go for premium buck.

I understand the birdshot tradeoff in penetration but again I'm playing the odds -- what is the chance I will have to use it in HD in the first place, and what is the chance that 1 1/4 ounces of #4 won't stop a guy at 7 yards or less and if so what is the chance a second load won't do it and I'd have to go the round 3 which is #4 buck?
__________________
Steve65 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2010, 02:23 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
USMC-03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 350
Liked 8 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

A police officer buddy of mine gave me some of the Federal tactical buck shot loads they carry. They stay in my 870 full time...I'm more worried about doing away with a bad guy as fast as possible than some kind of varmint in my back yard. Way I look at it is, more than likely the varmint I need to dispatch of will give me time to change loads...bad guy won't...you decide.

__________________
USMC-03 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 11:34 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: HOI,Illinois
Posts: 28
Default

As stated above, use a pistol to fight your way to your long gun.

Why a shotgun is BAD for home defense:
- User's ignorance of shell loadings (penetration of buckshot, limitations of birdshot, etc)

- 2 handed operation is necessary, which limits the use of illumination devices (flashlights). Although the accessory market for this has improved, but the user is responsible for being familiar with the manipulation of a weapon-mounted light (most won't).

- most civilians do not understand the difficulty of using a long gun in a tight hallway or navigating a tight corner without compromising your self/weapon and maintaining a ready position

- It is hard to have a shotgun in a ready position that can be easily reached from a lying position in bed. If it can be achieved, it is likely that the shotgun is much to easy to be accessed by everyone else when you are not around (burglars, children, anyone else)

- Myths of "I only have to rack it for it to work" and "I don't have to aim" reduce effectiveness

Why Shotguns are a good idea

- affordable
- simple to use
- power

When choosing a load for your HD shotgun, consider your layout, sleeping arrangements, proximity to neighbors, building materials. While I am not against buckshot, I am finding myself being more and more convinced that intermediate sized shot (BB, BBB, #4 Buck) made of heavier, denser material can be exceptionally potent as a general utility/defensive round.

__________________
pointblank4445 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 12:14 AM   #10
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 18,028
Liked 5984 Times on 3131 Posts
Likes Given: 426

Default

Quote:
User's ignorance of shell loadings (penetration of buckshot, limitations of birdshot, etc)
for very close range load really doesnt matter. the lenght of the hall or width of a bedroom shot dispersal really doesnt reduce effectiveness all that much.

Quote:
2 handed operation is necessary, which limits the use of illumination devices (flashlights). Although the accessory market for this has improved, but the user is responsible for being familiar with the manipulation of a weapon-mounted light (most won't).
personally im not a fan of illumintion on a firearm. im of the school that believes it gives your defensive position away more than helps. if your looking or see in the dark get some nvds.

Quote:
most civilians do not understand the difficulty of using a long gun in a tight hallway or navigating a tight corner without compromising your self/weapon and maintaining a ready position
im of the opinion that one shouldnt be exploring the home if you suspect a burgler call 911 and wait for help in a defensable location.

Quote:
It is hard to have a shotgun in a ready position that can be easily reached from a lying position in bed. If it can be achieved, it is likely that the shotgun is much to easy to be accessed by everyone else when you are not around (burglars, children, anyone else)
as opposed to any other fire arm you own?? mine are easy to get to but camoflaged. walk into any room in my home and you would have a tough time finding anything much less a shotgun lol. if your worried about children get a safe.

shotguns in 12ga are still the best weapon for in the home defense. easy to use easy to point when your tired and bleary eyed. pistols take a lot of skill and concentration to use under the best of circumstances. shotguns erase a lot of those issues just by their very nature of ease of use.
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Best Shotgun & Loadout For Home Defense? DSan General Shotgun Discussion 35 11-28-2011 10:00 PM
Home Defense With a Shotgun 147_Grain General Shotgun Discussion 1 12-12-2010 05:59 PM
I'm looking for THE CHEAPEST home defense pump shotgun. TheSadPanda General Shotgun Discussion 41 09-14-2010 05:09 PM
Home Defense shotgun RONSERESURPLUS General Shotgun Discussion 40 08-07-2010 01:38 PM
Handgun or Shotgun for home defense? sausn2002 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 26 08-13-2009 08:13 PM