[ShagNasty1001]

Originally Posted by robocop10mm

Look for an older, lightly used Winchester Defender. Strong as nails and very easy to maintain. The strongest barrels in the market. Rotating bolt insures solid lock up. Alloy receiver for light weight. 7 + 1 capacity. The only draw back is they have limited sight options. Bead or ...Bead.

ATI just came out with a heat shield that has ghost rings incorporated for the 1300 defender. Been thinking of getting one for mine

http://www.atigunstocks.com/accessories-and-parts/480-standard-halo-heatshield.html

[racer_x]

If were going that far then a browing a-500

[John_Deer]

Originally Posted by akers06

The benelli pumps aren't much higher than the mossturds and are a lot better gun

Both are good guns. The biggest difference is the ejection system. If you are left handed you are going to favor a bottom ejection system. Price wise the Benelli is considerably more expensive. The benelli runs around $350 and the mossberg around $250. For the price of a benelli I can get a mossberg combo with a 28" field barrel and a rifled barrel or a security barrel.

If you have to have a bottom ejection system you have to consider a Browning. If your budget is tight you have to consider a savage.

Lots of people like winchesters. There is nothing wrong with a winchester. Winchester builds the same gun they built in the 80's. But in the 80"s a winchester was in the same price range as a stevens. I don't see how they are worth a premium price today.

Will a shooter pass a mossberg down through the generations? That depends on how much you shoot a mossberg. If you shoot 800 rounds a month for years you will wear out any gun. When I was actively shooting skeet I wore out a mossberg 500A and a Browning Citori. If you shoot a few hundred rounds during the off season and 30 rounds of buckshot/slugs hunting a mossberg will last for generations.

[JimRau]

Welcome to the site, enjoy!
A Lot of good info here, but remember you get extend mag tubes for most shotguns and this will cost A LOT less than trying to buy a shotgun already set up!!!

[HockaLouis]

Originally Posted by John_Deer

...Winchester builds the same gun they built in the 80's. But in the 80"s a winchester was in the same price range as a stevens. I don't see how they are worth a premium price today.

Will a shooter pass a mossberg down through the generations? That depends on how much you shoot a mossberg. If you shoot 800 rounds a month for years you will wear out any gun. When I was actively shooting skeet I wore out a mossberg 500A and a Browning Citori. If you shoot a few hundred rounds during the off season and 30 rounds of buckshot/slugs hunting a mossberg will last for generations.

Winchester went out of business. Only the ammo division survived. How do people keep forgetting this? They were killed by their union contract and their products' competitiveness in the market. The NAME survives and has been slowly leased to actual manufacturers, after and over many years, to "make them again." They are not Winchesters any more than Browning's 1895 or Hi-Wall was, or other reproductions made in Japan, Belgium and China (like the Winchester 1897 12 Ga. Lever Action) except someone paid to write "Winchester" on one vs. another. Sorry if the truth bothers some including Mods...

As for wearing out a Mossberg, one can, but I shot one competitively in Trap to the point of becoming Distinguished Expert, to the point of wearing out my shoulder and literally seeping blood through my blouse (uniform that is). I can't begin to count the tens of thousands of rounds run through it without a hiccup or even feeling any different than the first few hundred...

[robocop10mm]

Originally Posted by HockaLouis

Winchester went out of business. Only the ammo division survived. How do people keep forgetting this? They were killed by their union contract and their products' competitiveness in the market. The NAME survives and has been slowly leased to actual manufacturers, after and over many years, to "make them again." They are not Winchesters any more than Browning's 1895 or Hi-Wall was, or other reproductions made in Japan, Belgium and China (like the Winchester 1897 12 Ga. Lever Action) except someone paid to write "Winchester" on one vs. another. Sorry if the truth bothers some including Mods...

As for wearing out a Mossberg, one can, but I shot one competitively in Trap to the point of becoming Distinguished Expert, to the point of wearing out my shoulder and literally seeping blood through my blouse (uniform that is). I can't begin to count the tens of thousands of rounds run through it without a hiccup or even feeling any different than the first few hundred...

Huh? USRA (United States Repeating Arms) bought the WInchester name, patents and rights. The Defenders of the 80's and 90's are just as much Winchesters as an original Model 97. I know, that will set some "purists" off into orbit. A Smith and Wesson made under the Saf-t-Hammer ownership is just as much a S&W as one made under Tompkins, Bangor Punta or the Wesson family ownership.

The Winchester name (for guns, not ammo), patents and copyrights are currently owned by FN Herstal who happens to own the Browning name also. The Winchester 1300 shotguns are still produced today, they are just called FN pump shotguns. They are mechanically the same, they just have more "tacticool" options available like sights and retractable stocks.

[akers06]

Originally Posted by kryptar19

Sorry but you are misinformed friend. I've shot the Benellies and really I hate them. They are awkward and uncomfortable, and do not shoot any better than other pumps (Remington , Mossberg). A Mossberg will take any abuse a shotgun will see during everyday hunting/shooting use.

Ohh and the 835 and 590A1 are two of the only pump to pass all military trials. Sorry, just a better gun for less money.

Ok that's your opinion I have owned a few of them and I loved them I would trade one for 10 Remingtons or mossburgs if I had to keep them....and who cares about what guns pass military trials.....Are you going to put your gun through the abuse a soldier will????I know I'm not...but if you want to go there what is the only semi auto gun the military uses hummmm the benelli m4.....just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make it fact

[HockaLouis]

Originally Posted by robocop10mm

Huh? USRA (United States Repeating Arms) bought the WInchester name, patents and rights. The Defenders of the 80's and 90's are just as much Winchesters as an original Model 97. I know, that will set some "purists" off into orbit. A Smith and Wesson made under the Saf-t-Hammer ownership is just as much a S&W as one made under Tompkins, Bangor Punta or the Wesson family ownership.

The Winchester name (for guns, not ammo), patents and copyrights are currently owned by FN Herstal who happens to own the Browning name also. The Winchester 1300 shotguns are still produced today, they are just called FN pump shotguns. They are mechanically the same, they just have more "tacticool" options available like sights and retractable stocks.

People can read the whole sordid history and decide for themselves IF Winchester is a trademarked brand name only -- that the real arms company hasn't existed for many years now in any real way.


From Wikipedia under US Repeating Arms:
"...Olin retained the Winchester ammunition business. U.S. Repeating Arms itself went bankrupt in 1989. After bankruptcy it was acquired by a French holding company, then sold to Belgian armsmakers Herstal Group, which also owns gun makers Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) and Browning Arms Company.

On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing its New Haven plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns had been produced for 140 years. Along with the closing of the plant, production of the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 [Defender] shotgun were discontinued.

Revival
On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. The production of Model 1885 falling block action, Model 1892 and Model 1886 lever action rifles are produced under licensed agreement by Miroku Corp. of Japan and imported back to United States by Browning.

In 2008 Fabrique Nationale announced that it would produce Model 70 rifles at its plant in Columbia, SC. In the summer of 2010 Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN [not even Winchester UNDER Herstal Group]) resumed production of the Winchester model 1894 and the evolution of the Winchester 1300 [Defender], now called the Winchester SXP.

A number of gun cleaning kits, Chinese folding knives, tools, and other "manly" accessories are also now sold under the Winchester trademark..."


In other words, for the better part of a decade, Winchester arms has not existed making arms. Not their plant, property, equipment, workers or management. None of it. NONE. It was a has-been and exists as a rented name only, stuck on reproductions for all intent and purpose it seems pretty clear to me (industry, and almost all shooters).

[kryptar19]

Originally Posted by akers06

Ok that's your opinion I have owned a few of them and I loved them I would trade one for 10 Remingtons or mossburgs if I had to keep them....and who cares about what guns pass military trials.....Are you going to put your gun through the abuse a soldier will????I know I'm not...but if you want to go there what is the only semi auto gun the military uses hummmm the benelli m4.....just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make it fact

Just my reaction to a brand snob

[akers06]

Originally Posted by kryptar19

Just my reaction to a brand snob

My point exactly there mossburg man