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Old 03-13-2014, 02:36 AM   #11
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I am on this stupid iPhone - I will give it a better evaluation tomorrow


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Old 03-13-2014, 05:15 AM   #12
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The Winchester 21 was as good and tough of a SxS as ever was. Because of the longer water tables there was less stress on the lock up, and they were hell for stout too. They quit making them because the market was shrinking - ever notice how the VAST majority now days want a cheap gun - and the ones they sold never wore out, and John Olin died, and then so did Winchester, and they were always very expensive compared to the competition. I have looked at some and shot some, and I was very impressed by Connecticut's products, but I have heard some rumblings that the QC is not what it should be for the price. I do not own one. Purely 2nd hand stuff. They do have other models available besides the Model 21, too. I know I have an acquaintance who had them rebuild a Model 21 some years ago and it has been totally trouble free, and they did a beautiful job.
It's said that the Winchester model 21 was the strongest SXS ever made and I believe it. I consider it the Rolls Royce of shotguns. When shouldering that shotgun it feels like no other I own, or ever fired. It's like a tank, yet doesn't feel heavy and it's balance is beautiful. Something about it tells you you can't miss and I rarely ever did, but missing was my doing. Mine is the field grade 12ga. with 28" mod and full barrels, mfg in 1949. It was owned by a Winchester gunsmith who raised the comb. I'd never part with it.




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Old 03-13-2014, 05:25 AM   #13
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I have always wanted a Connecticut Shotguns "professional".

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:07 PM   #14
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key word....'starting at'.
and too...remember, c.s. bought all the remaining parts from winchester. they are still building guns from parts on orders.
the originals made in new haven are the ones that command real good prices.
and c.s's claim to fame is rebuilding old ones. now some collectors would faint at the thought, but they do such a great job...it increases value on them.

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Old 03-13-2014, 06:23 PM   #15
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This can be verified in Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values that the Winchester model 21 is the only gun that I know of that if it's refinished actually will increase in value, where with other guns can drastically reduce their value.

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Old 03-14-2014, 09:38 AM   #16
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CSMC guns are high quality with a price to match. With that said, to me they are sorely lacking in appearance. The scallop on the back of the receiver in the RBL series makes them look like a cheap Russian import. Their newest endeavor, the Model 21 o/u, is hideous.
Their take on the Model 21 sxs has the slab-sided receiver. I much prefer the original early 21's with the arrow-shaped bolster, it just looks better. Again, just my opinion.
I would not trade my 1932 Model 21 for their top of the line one.
On the other hand, their re-do of the A.H. Fox is gorgeous. If I had 20K to blow, I'd be at Tony's in a heartbeat to order one.

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Old 03-14-2014, 07:40 PM   #17
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CSMC guns are high quality with a price to match. With that said, to me they are sorely lacking in appearance. The scallop on the back of the receiver in the RBL series makes them look like a cheap Russian import. Their newest endeavor, the Model 21 o/u, is hideous.
Their take on the Model 21 sxs has the slab-sided receiver. I much prefer the original early 21's with the arrow-shaped bolster, it just looks better. Again, just my opinion.
I would not trade my 1932 Model 21 for their top of the line one.
On the other hand, their re-do of the A.H. Fox is gorgeous. If I had 20K to blow, I'd be at Tony's in a heartbeat to order one.
I as well wouldn't give up my old model 21 for a new one. That shotgun had a beautiful profile that's recognizable a mile away like the lines of a Jag, '57 Chevy, or VW Beetle. Why any company would change perfection is beyond me. I have a number of other finely engraved shotguns that are of very high quality and look great, but they don't impress me more than my 21. This shotgun reminds me of my Schwinn Black Phantom bike that I had in the 1950's. It was above any other bike out there, but do to it's high cost to produce(Sold for $85 in 1956) just like the 21, it was discontinued. But they'll continue to be the legend of their day.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:29 AM   #18
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I as well wouldn't give up my old model 21 for a new one. That shotgun had a beautiful profile that's recognizable a mile away like the lines of a Jag, '57 Chevy, or VW Beetle. Why any company would change perfection is beyond me. I have a number of other finely engraved shotguns that are of very high quality and look great, but they don't impress me more than my 21. This shotgun reminds me of my Schwinn Black Phantom bike that I had in the 1950's. It was above any other bike out there, but do to it's high cost to produce(Sold for $85 in 1956) just like the 21, it was discontinued. But they'll continue to be the legend of their day.
Technically, the 21 wasn't discontinued, you could order one through the Custom Shop just about up to the day that Galazan bought the name and parts inventory, you can still order one from them - but IMHO, while they are great guns, they are NOT Winchester Model 21's. They are CSMC Model 21 reproductions, not Winchesters, and I do not believe they will increase in value as the originals have, or that they will ever be a collector gun.
Yours is similar to mine in that it has the 'arrow' side bolsters (which I love), mine has double triggers (all my sxs guns do, just personal preference), the very early frame with the rounded bottom and an after-market claro or English walnut stock. It did not 'letter' from Cody but with all the research I have done in the Schwing book, I believe it to be a first or second year gun due to a lot of features unique to the first two years. I was never a 21 fan - until a very close friend gave me custody of this one.
Didn't mean to ramble on but damn I love this gun - and it's a 12, not even my beloved 16ga!
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:14 AM   #19
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Technically, the 21 wasn't discontinued, you could order one through the Custom Shop just about up to the day that Galazan bought the name and parts inventory, you can still order one from them - but IMHO, while they are great guns, they are NOT Winchester Model 21's. They are CSMC Model 21 reproductions, not Winchesters, and I do not believe they will increase in value as the originals have, or that they will ever be a collector gun.
Yours is similar to mine in that it has the 'arrow' side bolsters (which I love), mine has double triggers (all my sxs guns do, just personal preference), the very early frame with the rounded bottom and an after-market claro or English walnut stock. It did not 'letter' from Cody but with all the research I have done in the Schwing book, I believe it to be a first or second year gun due to a lot of features unique to the first two years. I was never a 21 fan - until a very close friend gave me custody of this one.
Didn't mean to ramble on but damn I love this gun - and it's a 12, not even my beloved 16ga!
You're correct about it not being totally discontinued, cause they could still be special ordered. But those ordering them after they stopped putting them in their catalog really paid through the nose, especially where the Grand American was concerned.

I got the letter on mine with date of mfg and all the specs when made that even describes the original LOP, etc. Mine wasn't ordered originally by anyone personally, but was mfg at Winchester's request for keeping in stock and that's stated in the letter. Those shotguns are considered custom made though do to their high quality. Mine's all original except for the raised comb and a Pachmayr recoil pad was added due to the butt being widened, but the figure in the wood is real nice. It has a beaver tail fore end which I prefer to a splinter and has a solid rib.

To be honest I'd love the original model 21 no matter how it's configured. It is a shotgun that's hard not to keep talking about. I haven't shot it for quite a while, but at the range even the range officers ask if they can try it and I always got plenty of offers to buy it. Now I'm starting to go on and on but I can't control myself.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:30 AM   #20
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Now I'm starting to go on and on but I can't control myself.
Hey, we love talking about our toys, nothing wrong with that.
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