buckshot vs. slugs for home defense - Page 6
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Shotgun Discussion > buckshot vs. slugs for home defense

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2013, 04:01 PM   #51
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,735
Liked 21905 Times on 12377 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyChadwell View Post
OK...I'll play too :-)

I like the hornady varmint express #4 buckshot in the 2 3/4" variety. It uses their tight was technology (?) And even out of open cylinder SGs, it patterns very nicely. I think it has plenty of weight to get good penetration at the longest distances in my home and I'm confident I can hit what I'm aiming at with it. With that said, I have been testing several different kinds of shotgun loads for shooting coyotes, so maybe my brain is fixed on small animals and not human targets. If anyone has anything to say that may make me want to change my mind and do some different testing I'm all ears!
many times people buy a shotgun or a pistol and some ammo for HD/SD purposes, stick them in a corner or wherever and nevr even test them out as to how they function or how they shoot with the ammo they have chosen.

any firearm within my home that would ever be used for HD/SD purposes is fully tested for function and operation with the chosen ammo i have bought. i firmly believe in testing them for accuracy and patterning in regards to shotguns. i want to know, not assume they will work as intended. when a BG is coming through the door is not the time to find out you don't know how to operate the gun, or the ammo you have chosen doesn't work effectively.

i test my shotguns at 30 feet or less, for penetration, POI and pattern. i test my loads on various materials to determine what amount of penetration or damage it can inflict. i use plywood, sheetrock, old doors and sometimes scraps of 2x6's. i test on cardboard to determine it's pattern and POI at different distances.
__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:12 PM   #52
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
deathkricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 697
Liked 99 Times on 60 Posts
Likes Given: 108

Default

This man took 5 shells of Winchester bird shot at a range of point blank to around 10 feet to his chest, arm/ribs, back and his neck and was able to find cover, draw his Glock 23 and shoot the subject through his knee cap resulting in the loss of his leg. How do I know this, this man is my good friend and old partner. I am thankful there are people out there stupid enough to think Bird Shot is the best defensive ammo ever because if this jackass had been using real ammo my friend would not be around the see his son born. For this age old question I still say do not use bird shot, it will get you killed. My friend walked out of the hospital about 2 hours after he was admitted and he has a good story, the other guy is not so lucky.

ttttt-010.jpg  
__________________

Last edited by deathkricket; 10-26-2013 at 04:14 PM.
deathkricket is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:44 PM   #53
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 665
Liked 208 Times on 127 Posts
Likes Given: 289

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyChadwell View Post
OK...I'll play too :-)

I like the hornady varmint express #4 buckshot in the 2 3/4" variety. It uses their tight was technology (?) And even out of open cylinder SGs, it patterns very nicely. I think it has plenty of weight to get good penetration at the longest distances in my home and I'm confident I can hit what I'm aiming at with it. With that said, I have been testing several different kinds of shotgun loads for shooting coyotes, so maybe my brain is fixed on small animals and not human targets. If anyone has anything to say that may make me want to change my mind and do some different testing I'm all ears!
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathkricket View Post
This man took 5 shells of Winchester bird shot at a range of point blank to around 10 feet to his chest, arm/ribs, back and his neck and was able to find cover, draw his Glock 23 and shoot the subject through his knee cap resulting in the loss of his leg. How do I know this, this man is my good friend and old partner. I am thankful there are people out there stupid enough to think Bird Shot is the best defensive ammo ever because if this jackass had been using real ammo my friend would not be around the see his son born. For this age old question I still say do not use bird shot, it will get you killed. My friend walked out of the hospital about 2 hours after he was admitted and he has a good story, the other guy is not so lucky.
I think that's settled...


Don't know why it posted my quote too...
__________________
CaseyChadwell is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:24 PM   #54
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
John_Deer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,722
Liked 1873 Times on 1283 Posts
Likes Given: 691

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyChadwell View Post
OK...I'll play too :-)

I like the hornady varmint express #4 buckshot in the 2 3/4" variety. It uses their tight was technology (?) And even out of open cylinder SGs, it patterns very nicely. I think it has plenty of weight to get good penetration at the longest distances in my home and I'm confident I can hit what I'm aiming at with it. With that said, I have been testing several different kinds of shotgun loads for shooting coyotes, so maybe my brain is fixed on small animals and not human targets. If anyone has anything to say that may make me want to change my mind and do some different testing I'm all ears!
Almost all buckshot loads pattern better from an open choke. Any constriction at the end of the barrel causes deformation of the pellets. Buckshot has a felt wad to keep pressure on the powder. Premium buckshot is packed in plastic sawdust to prevent the pellets from getting deformed.

I noticed a lot of people are loading their gun with low recoil buckshot for self defense. In a life or death situation you will not feel the recoil from magnum buckshot loads. Low recoil buckshot is for practice, not self defense.

My wife encountered a rattlesnake in the yard. She is normally shy about shooting a 12 ga. When she shot the rattlesnake she didn't notice the recoil from a 3" 00 buckshot load. She just wanted the aggressive snake gone.
__________________

Nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety - Plato

John_Deer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:45 PM   #55
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 3,186
Liked 2405 Times on 1328 Posts
Likes Given: 325

Default

If you're gonna do less lethal and get sued... and probably lose your house, money, wallet the money's in and pants... and go to jail.... Why not do it right and just buy some beanbag rounds!?

__________________

"...it is ...ALIVE!!!"

DeltaF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 06:08 PM   #56
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FernandoTheCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 738
Liked 406 Times on 231 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathkricket View Post
This man took 5 shells of Winchester bird shot at a range of point blank to around 10 feet to his chest, arm/ribs, back and his neck and was able to find cover, draw his Glock 23 and shoot the subject through his knee cap resulting in the loss of his leg. How do I know this, this man is my good friend and old partner. I am thankful there are people out there stupid enough to think Bird Shot is the best defensive ammo ever because if this jackass had been using real ammo my friend would not be around the see his son born. For this age old question I still say do not use bird shot, it will get you killed. My friend walked out of the hospital about 2 hours after he was admitted and he has a good story, the other guy is not so lucky.
Never had faith in birdshot for sd purposes. In regards to your story...holy crap. That looks like it stung a bit lol.
__________________
FernandoTheCommando is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 06:18 PM   #57
Cancer Killa
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: -1 reviews
 
Argyle_Armoring's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: OKC
Posts: 897
Liked 361 Times on 222 Posts
Likes Given: 645

Default

Never use less lethal munitions to defend yourself or your home. Never use slugs in your home defense shotgun to defend your home. Use 00 Buck or higher. Trust me. I'm a professional.

__________________

Owner/Armorer at Argyle Armoring, LLC - FFL 07
NRA Life Member
What do I know? I'm only a professional.

Argyle_Armoring is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 05:28 AM   #58
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SSGN_Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,471
Liked 2295 Times on 1348 Posts
Likes Given: 503

Default

I like Federal Flite Control and Hornady Tite Wad loads in 00 buck. Much tighter patterns. Still been trying to find the Federal load in #1 buck. Same tight patterns with a potential for even more tissue damage and rapid blood loss by the increased surface area of more projectiles that still meet the FBI penetration standards.

__________________
SSGN_Doc is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 07:40 AM   #59
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 3,186
Liked 2405 Times on 1328 Posts
Likes Given: 325

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSGN_Doc
I like Federal Flite Control and Hornady Tite Wad loads in 00 buck. Much tighter patterns. Still been trying to find the Federal load in #1 buck. Same tight patterns with a potential for even more tissue damage and rapid blood loss by the increased surface area of more projectiles that still meet the FBI penetration standards.
I gotta say the first time I used the flite control I was absolutely floored. At 25 yards with a beat up old range gun I put 10 out of 10 spreads in a circle the size of a paper plate with 1 floater that was still inside the 2 point line on a standard POST silhouette. They're awesome!
__________________

"...it is ...ALIVE!!!"

DeltaF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 07:55 AM   #60
No Longer a NY Resident.
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kfox75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Erie County PA,
Posts: 2,570
Liked 1610 Times on 988 Posts
Likes Given: 8520

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
My wife encountered a rattlesnake in the yard. She is normally shy about shooting a 12 ga. When she shot the rattlesnake she didn't notice the recoil from a 3" 00 buckshot load. She just wanted the aggressive snake gone.
Dude! I've heard of overkill, but I have to classify that as Uberkill.

Pick her up a .22 revolver and some subsonics. The snake will strike at the slower moving bullet. Quite entertaining to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
If you're gonna do less lethal and get sued... and probably lose your house, money, wallet the money's in and pants... and go to jail.... Why not do it right and just buy some beanbag rounds!?
Agreed. My grandfather was a NY State Trooper for 22 years, and there is one thing he said to me when I was younger that I will never forget.

"Dead men can't press charges, and they d@mn well can't sue you. If you have to shoot don't shoot to wound. Do it right the first time, and make sure that they perp is in your house when you do so. IOW, if you have to shoot, shoot to kill."

Granted, he was a trooper in the 1950s until the late 70s, so PC has taken over in the interim. The modern version is shoot to stop the threat. Would you take on a bear with a shotgun loaded with #7 shot? I myself would not.

the best advice I can give is to find out what rounds LE uses in your area. If it's good enough for them to bet their lives and public safety on, it will likely work for you if you or your family is in danger, and when questioned about the loads used you are using a commonly accepted SD choice. The simple solution when it comes to risk of over penetration, remember the 10 rules of firearm safety. Know what is beyond your target. If you do not have a clear, safe shot, don't shoot. Move to a position where you or another armed family member can get a clear shot, and then reasses the situation.

As far as what I use, my 870 is loaded with 00 Buck or #1 Buck, 2 and 3/4 inch 12 gauge, which is what was recommended to me by the majority of my LEO friends. I also live in a dwelling where the only direction that I have to worry about is my daughter's bedroom, and the only door is on the compete opposite side of my 2nd floor apartment. If they can make it that far, the 2 80+ pound dogs roaming the apartment will be their first concern. They can worry about the shotgun while they are waiting for the ambulance and the Sheriff's department after we call off the dogs.
__________________

Is it better to do the right thing for the wrong reason, or to do the wrong thing for the right reason? If you do the wrong thing for the right reason, is it still the wrong thing?

Si vis pacem para bellum.

To those who wish to take away our Second Amendment rights. What will you do when we, all 100,000,000 of us, stand as one, and say no?

kfox75 is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
sabot slugs and rifled slugs question CodyWalkerJr General Shotgun Discussion 9 02-12-2013 02:27 AM
Coach Gun for home defense? Dr. Marneaus General Shotgun Discussion 25 07-03-2012 08:16 AM
Auto for Home Defense BigMac10 Semi-Auto Handguns 35 02-20-2012 12:30 AM
Home Defense Dog? 6shooterjunction Survival & Sustenance Living Forum 173 04-18-2011 07:15 PM
Saiga or EAA for home defense Pjj342 General Shotgun Discussion 1 10-25-2010 04:28 PM