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Buckshot for home defense


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Old 04-15-2014, 01:29 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Steel_Talon View Post
Hit em with "cut shells"

God I hope your kidding, that wouldn't look too good in the following mandatory court testimony aftermath.

Personally I'm torn between 00 Buck and a smaller diameter pellet load.

On the one hand, I realize that come hell or high water, you are responsible for every pellet that leaves that shotgun, (picture a .33 cal. ball @ 1300fps.)and at typical SD ranges, a smaller batch of pellets carries less far through a barrier, (Apt. walls) but is still as devastating as a pre-fragmented slug at close range.

Food for thought.
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:07 AM   #132
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There are major differences in buckshot loads between manufacturers. The premium Federals will shoot very tight patterns from a cylinder bore. Akin to a modified choke compared to some other brands. My 20 gauge is loaded with #3 buck and I have patterned it at 7 yards. You better be aiming. Typical patterns at 7 yards are 4" for Modified choke, 5" for Improved and 6" for Cylinder. Results will vary with the gun and the ammo brand used. The main focus of buckshot is to penetrate a vital organ and the number of shot gives you a better chance of doing that. You do need to have a pellet size with enough mass to accomplish the task.
Rifled slugs were designed when there were no screw in choke tubes and most could only afford one gun. It was typically a 28" 12 gauge with a modified choke. The rifling on the slug allowed it to compress going through the choke and hopefully impart some spin. Rifled slugs do show better accuracy out of a choked barrel but I would not attempt to shoot one out of a full choke.
Way back in the late 1800`s when the Rifled Slug was invented the only thing to shoot slugs from was a Full Choke Barrel !...............
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:16 PM   #133
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I have never heard of anyone being question about what type of ammunition they used in a criminal investigation or trial if they were 'right/legal' in their decision to defend themselves or others. I will say that the use of 'birdshot' could open you up to some VERY serious civil implications thought!!!
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:59 PM   #134
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I have never heard of anyone being question about what type of ammunition they used in a criminal investigation or trial if they were 'right/legal' in their decision to defend themselves or others. I will say that the use of 'birdshot' could open you up to some VERY serious civil implications thought!!!

I don't care about civil implications. I don't want ammo that is deadly at 15 feet but might not penetrate a hoodie at 30 feet. I know that I cannot judge distances that well under stress. With buckshot if the goblin is within 30 yards I would advise him to pray before kicking my door down.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:56 AM   #135
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...I will say that the use of 'birdshot' could open you up to some VERY serious civil implications thought!!!
How you figure that?

Especially since you've never heard of anyone being questioned in a hearing about the type of ammunition being used for defense?
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:04 AM   #136
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Very interesting thread but without re-reading the entire, my thought was this was about home protection. I don't know what type of palaces some of you live in but in my humble abode a 12 gauge anything is a
man-stopper! 1 1/8 to 1 3/4 oz. of lead in your typical home/apartment is going to be a show stopper period! If you doubt this try it! My living room on the long end is 27' ( I did say humble) with a standard length piece and standing back to the wall were talking 22' max. To even consider that the 5.56 in the same circumstance is the equal is silly. There is a reason some guides back their clients up with 12 gauge shotguns and not squirrel rifles its sheer stopping power! Now there is no magic here mass times velocity =?
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:41 AM   #137
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Very interesting thread but without re-reading the entire, my thought was this was about home protection. I don't know what type of palaces some of you live in but in my humble abode a 12 gauge anything is a
man-stopper! 1 1/8 to 1 3/4 oz. of lead in your typical home/apartment is going to be a show stopper period! If you doubt this try it! My living room on the long end is 27' ( I did say humble) with a standard length piece and standing back to the wall were talking 22' max. To even consider that the 5.56 in the same circumstance is the equal is silly. There is a reason some guides back their clients up with 12 gauge shotguns and not squirrel rifles its sheer stopping power! Now there is no magic here mass times velocity =?
I don't have a big house but I have a large yard. Just my front yard is 1.5 acres. It is about 20 yards from my house to the carport where I keep my trucks. It is about a 150 yards from my house to my barn and the parking lot where I store my equipment. We have never had an intruder in the house. But we have caught several people messing around in the barn at night. I finally paved the area around the barn and put up a 12' chain link fence.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:50 AM   #138
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I have never heard of anyone being question about what type of ammunition they used in a criminal investigation or trial if they were 'right/legal' in their decision to defend themselves or others. I will say that the use of 'birdshot' could open you up to some VERY serious civil implications thought!!!
sounds like a contradiction on your part. please explain for the rest of us these VERY serious legal implications.

IMO, if on the off chance a person had to defend their choice in ammo used in a SD shooting against a very liberal and possible gun hating crowd of people, using the same load that a person used for hunting ducks for SD would probably weigh in their favor, not against. just my thoughts.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:56 AM   #139
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How you figure that?

Especially since you've never heard of anyone being questioned in a hearing about the type of ammunition being used for defense?
Civil and criminal law are two totally different animals.
From a civil stand point if you use birdshot:
1. The probably of 'killing' is low but probably of causing a 'permanent disability' is high.
2. Because of the above it can be argued that you did not use lethal force and your intent was to wound.
3. If you did not use lethal force you did not feel lethal force was justified so they can argue you were not justified.
Just the fact that the probably of causing a permanent disability (serious injury) is much higher than causing a permanent stop (death) when you use 'birdshot' increases the likely hood of civil action against the shooter.

On the criminal side, you were either justified or you were not, period. If you used a gun, knife, or baseball bat is not relevant.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:01 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
Civil and criminal law are two totally different animals.
From a civil stand point if you use birdshot:
1. The probably of 'killing' is low but probably of causing a 'permanent disability' is high.
2. Because of the above it can be argued that you did not use lethal force and your intent was to wound.
3. If you did not use lethal force you did not feel lethal force was justified so they can argue you were not justified.
Just the fact that the probably of causing a permanent disability (serious injury) is much higher than causing a permanent stop (death) when you use 'birdshot' increases the likely hood of civil action against the shooter.
i guess i am very lucky to live in a state with a Castle Law. here in Texas, if the SD shooting was deemed justifiable, the person shot or his family if he or she were killed, have no legal recourse as far as a civil lawsuit.
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