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-   -   buck shot v.s. flachettes (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f26/buck-shot-v-s-flachettes-14222/)

dicky0331 05-28-2009 01:12 AM

buck shot v.s. flachettes
 
what do you guys prefer?

sgtdeath66 05-28-2009 01:21 AM

well if its snipers of allah then definitly flechettes. but other wise id probly go with buckshot

Minionsram 05-28-2009 02:25 AM

Buckshot of any sort is better ( or should I say I PREFER)

dicky0331 05-28-2009 06:12 AM

why buck shot over the flachettes? im asking because my uncle bought a bunch at the gunshow, and wants me to load them for him. these things look like they would turn someone into hamburger at 10 yds. they look like would do a crazy amount of damage.

anyone got any loading data for these things, or knows where to find it? also anyone know of links of these things shot into gel?

FCross7 05-28-2009 01:18 PM

Here's a short write-up and some ballistic gel pictures:

Ballistic gelatin test results : 12 gauge Sabot Designs Flechette Sabot cartridge - THR

-Fred

robocop10mm 05-28-2009 02:02 PM

At close range (under 25 yards) the flechettes are not yet stable. They are fin stabilized and may take longer to smooth out the yawing motion. If they were bent by the forces of firing, they will never stabilize. 50-100 yards they should stabilize out and do well. From what I have been able to find out is they tend to spread fairly quickly to a circle of about 36" in diameter and hold that pattern til they lose energy and fall. It is hard to get one to go much past 200 yards out of a shotgun.

Flechettes are intended to penetrate vegetitation and wound the target deeply. They lack the kinetic energy (because of their low weight) to stop a target. They can produce nasty wounds that may result in a fatality, eventually.

I prefer buckshot. A proper load will hold relatively tight patterns to 40-50 yards or so. I took a coyote at 65 yards with Winchester 000 2 3/4" buck. I fired three shots in rapid succession at two coyotes. Killed one big male (65#) with a single pellet to the rib cage.

I have loaded some flechettes. Do considerably research before attemping such an undertaking. The fins will tear up a barrel so a good wad is needed. Ballistic Products LBC (Limited Bore Contact) 43 wads will protect the bore from the steel flechettes but will limit the payload to about 15. You can get more in there if you load some backwards but that really screws up the patterns. The backward ones will collide with the forward ones as they try to do an about face.

You can load up to about 20 with a conventional wad (WW12R) but you lose a cosiderable amount of bore protection both from the fins and the tips as the red wad is not deep enough to enclose the entire length fo the flechette.

Buckshot is a much more viable payload for handloading. A .312 round ball mould will give you single 0 buck. 12 pellets at about 45 grains each will give you a load of about 1 1/8 oz. Red wads and blue dot powder can give you 1300 fps w/o any pressure problems. A 45 ACP case full of shot buffer thrown in for good measure adds a negligable amount of weight to the charge. Compression formed Winchester hulls (AA or smooth hi-brass) make a good container. I get predictable patterns of all 12 pellets in a B-27 silhouette at 25 yards.

I won't post my exact load but you can find a reasonable load in most manuals for this combination of hull, wad, powder and shot weight.

Virginian 05-29-2009 12:12 AM

Fleshettes are merely steel shot with fins. In other words, Junk. Okay out of an artillery piece at 3000 FPS, but your trusty shotgun isn't a real artillery piece, regardless of what you dream of. Stick to buckshot. Far superior sectional density.

dicky0331 05-29-2009 08:34 PM

thanks guys for the info, I myself have aways relied on no.4's. but my uncle is very adamant about having these things loaded. so I have some more knowlage to seek.

is there any special dies that are needed for these things? will they mess up my press? (if they do he can find someone else!) again thanks for all the help!

orangello 05-29-2009 10:17 PM

Thanks for posting this info; i saw some of these in a catalog the other day & didn't know if they were really intended for use or as a novelty.

edit* Item AMM-005 in Cheaper than Dirt, $29.97 per pound. I think i'll pass.

indy_kid 05-30-2009 05:41 AM

Forget them!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dicky0331 (Post 110764)
thanks guys for the info, I myself have aways relied on no.4's. but my uncle is very adamant about having these things loaded.

Perhaps your Uncle should have a talk with the local DA first. IMHO, and from what I've read, juries (based on inflammatory rhetoric from DAs) view these as designed ONLY to cause terrible injuries, with no defensive use whatsoever. Juries tend to side with the victims, based on the wounds received.

Load up some 00 and tell Uncle they're flechettes. Given that, IIRC, they're outlawed by Treaty for causing horrendous wounds, I don't see a practical use for them.

If they had a practical use, there would be a civvie version of a military round that you could buy on the open market. That should be a BIG clue these aren't to be used for defensive purposes.


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