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Old 06-15-2009, 10:15 PM   #61
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:33 AM   #62
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I guess the real subject to keep in mind here is to remember that shooting to maim, or to hold until the police arrives is illegal. We are only supposed to shoot to kill, and only when we feel our lives are in danger. Lower shot bird rounds are completely out of the question. I still feel that Buckshot may pose the problem of killing the intruder (legal) and the neighbor (Illegal) at the same time. All this while not being totally convinced that a higher shot bird round wouldn't field dress the bad guy at 15-20'.

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Old 06-16-2009, 03:53 AM   #63
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just a thought, how about reloading you're own HD shells? using buckshot but with less powder? of course it will take many test shots but... just a thought?

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Old 06-16-2009, 03:55 AM   #64
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What do you test it on? How would you know when this much powder aint enough powder to clear the guts from the intruder?

Edit: On second thought, nah, better not say it.

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Old 06-16-2009, 12:48 PM   #65
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I'm going to weigh in on this post. Glockfire and the others who think magnum turkey #4 loads won't instantly stop an attacker at 20 feet or less just ain't done much testing in person with shotgun loads. If you hit a person in the right place, at close range, with a turkey load (#4), he's going DOWN! My personal home defense shotgun have the 1st 2 loads of 2 3/4" magnum #4 turkey load. The next 2 shots are coyote loads. The rest are 00 buckshot. If it gets to the point I need the 00 buck, I'm already into an SEVERE situation.

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Old 06-16-2009, 04:08 PM   #66
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What do you test it on? How would you know when this much powder aint enough powder to clear the guts from the intruder?

Edit: On second thought, nah, better not say it.


What's the gel people use to see bullet penetration and I know people that do ballistics use it. I just cant think of the name of the gel.. So you could use that to see how much powder + distance = penetration.. If you were for real about it make a little wall with studs and dry wall etc. and place the gel "target" in front of the wall. That would allow you to see penetration and grouping. Dumb idea "prob." but who knows....
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:01 PM   #67
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Dumb idea "prob." but who knows....
Good idea..if you have the means to secure the gel and a place that will let you set up and shoot it. The downside is that the gel has to remain cold in order to maintain it's shape. If it gets to warm, it'll liquify. Plus, how many shot loads could a cube of jello withstand?

What about those oldtime shot blocks? You know, peice of 1x with a 1 inch space, 1x and another 1 inch space and so on and so forth. I forget what they are called. I'm not sure that helps with the over penetartion issues as I'm not sure anyone knows how many 1x's is equal to a human breadbasket?
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:02 AM   #68
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just a thought, how about reloading you're own HD shells? using buckshot but with less powder? of course it will take many test shots but... just a thought?
They have it. It is called Law Enforcement Reduced Recoil rounds. It is made by many companies, still deadly to a distance but more user friendly.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:03 PM   #69
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Default A passing observation pertaining to shotguns

I live in a out the way place Arctic North West Alaska, we carry shotguns all the time, one thing I did notice as we are remote, we have air service here and the State DOT has to keep the airfield cleard off of nucicence birds, As one occorance stands out back in the summer of 2000 a Northern Air Cargo DC-6 freighter plane had left with a load of Chum salmon, the fish totes had been sitting on the ramp had left some melt water on the airport ramp attracting a sizeable group of sea gulls were there mobing the bloody wet spot, the DOT worker tried to get the Gulls to leave useing a 12ga shotgun and Cracker Shells, they dident scare off, in desperation he shot directly at a gull, the force of the round pretty much crushed the bird to the paved ramp like you would slap a wet towel on the ground, the resultant expolsion of the round's projectile had dismemberd the bird scareing off the remander of the sea gulls just before the Alaska Airlines passenger jet was due to arrive.

The second observation in part is due to my employment, our work puts us in remote wild areas, a annual recurring shooting qualification is required to carry & shoot a slug stoked shotgun in Bear Country, during our qualifications our practical stationary and moving target's are constructed of 3/8" plywood to staple our paper tagets to, the slug rounds we use punch right through, what we have to watch for is at 25 yards the plastic powder wad will also punch right through the plywood some times sideways and we have to only count the holes punched by the Slugs the wad doesent count!, so the power of shotguns is awesome to witness and the little things like that I keep in mind when shooting them.

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Old 06-17-2009, 11:21 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by stalkingbear View Post
I'm going to weigh in on this post. Glockfire and the others who think magnum turkey #4 loads won't instantly stop an attacker at 20 feet or less just ain't done much testing in person with shotgun loads. If you hit a person in the right place, at close range, with a turkey load (#4), he's going DOWN! My personal home defense shotgun have the 1st 2 loads of 2 3/4" magnum #4 turkey load. The next 2 shots are coyote loads. The rest are 00 buckshot. If it gets to the point I need the 00 buck, I'm already into an SEVERE situation.
Well put, bear. But, I can't help to add that a well placed shot with a .22lr will drop a man as well. That being said, in a close situation, #4 birdshot will take a man down, but it may not kill him before he hits the ground. That good at close range, why not a 1-1/2 oz copper split-point slug in 3" mag?
Tons of energy transfer and the slug will not likely make to the neighbor's house. Ball is ball, and expanding slug is expanding slug.
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