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-   -   Birdshot vs Buckshot (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f26/birdshot-vs-buckshot-4335/)

glockfire 05-05-2008 01:52 AM

Birdshot vs Buckshot
 
I keep seeing alot of people saying that they use Birdshot for Home defense, which really makes me cringe. Id like everybody to look at these pictures and tell me which one you would rather protect your life with....

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...e/IMGP2788.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...e/IMGP2789.jpg

You see, every projectile acts alone, so even though you fire a bunch at one time, so even if you are firing 100 pellets at a guy, you are only really firing 1 pellet 100 times. So, if you are going to rely on the energy of each projectile, why not rely on 9 rounds of 00 buckshot?

Righteous 05-05-2008 02:24 AM

buck shot can penatrate walls and hurt somebody you may not intend to thats why the need for bird shot.

glockfire 05-05-2008 02:34 AM

Birdshot creates skin deep wounds that dont penetrate far enough to stop an assailant. He will still be in the fight.

hillbilly68 05-05-2008 03:42 AM

low recoil 00 buck in my wife's 870P :D

glockfire 05-05-2008 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillbilly68 (Post 23204)
low recoil 00 buck in my wife's 870P :D

Amen brother! Remington Low Recoil LE 00 Buck sits inside my 870 just itchin for a fight.

fapprez 05-05-2008 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockfire (Post 23198)
Birdshot creates skin deep wounds that dont penetrate far enough to stop an assailant. He will still be in the fight.

So what you are saying is, if I shot you with birdshot, you would walk away with nothing more than a tattoo and a need for a box of band-aids? I'm not buying it.

At best, you are looking at a maximum of 25 feet distance between you and target inside your home. The pattern would be concentrated enough and powerfull enough to do some real damage. Hell, the flash and bang alone would probably send him back out the way he came in.

Bottom line: If I can drop a duck at a few hundred feet, I can drop an intruder at 20. And with birdshot, you'll still have neighbors to brag to in the morning:)

ScottG 05-05-2008 12:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is the result of my own investigation. I shot my twenty gauge loaded with birdshot then buckshot at approximately fifteen feet from the cardboard. The red dots show where the wadding hit.

bkt 05-05-2008 04:31 PM

No question, you want buckshot for home defense. But use your head and consider overpenetration issues. #2 buck is very likely to make an intruder settle down quickly and may be less likely to cause problems for innocents in the next room or house than 00.

As always, use what you're comfortable with, but consider the effects consequences.

glockfire 05-05-2008 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fapprez (Post 23213)
So what you are saying is, if I shot you with birdshot, you would walk away with nothing more than a tattoo and a need for a box of band-aids? I'm not buying it.

At best, you are looking at a maximum of 25 feet distance between you and target inside your home. The pattern would be concentrated enough and powerfull enough to do some real damage. Hell, the flash and bang alone would probably send him back out the way he came in.

Bottom line: If I can drop a duck at a few hundred feet, I can drop an intruder at 20. And with birdshot, you'll still have neighbors to brag to in the morning:)

So what you are saying is that a duck is the same as a cornered human male with a gun fighting for his life.... right. Well then, I hope I dont encounter any ducks inside my house. Please, read this article and come to your own conclusion:
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html


Also, read this:
[quote]
Quote:

Originally Posted by FMD
Iím going to bow out of the debate with this:

Newgard, Ken, M.D.: "The Physiological Effects of Handgun Bullets: The Mechanisms of Wounding and Incapacitation." Wound Ballistics Review, 1(3): 12-17; 1992.

Quote:

This article examines the physiological mechanisms of the human body to provide a medical answer to the question: How many times is it necessary to shoot an assailant before he is incapacitated?

Newgard reviews the physiological mechanisms of gunshot wound trauma incapacitation:

"The only method of reliably stopping a human with a handgun is to decrease the functioning capability of the central nervous system (CNS) and specifically, the brain and cervical spinal cord. There are two ways to accomplish this goal: 1) direct trauma to the CNS tissue resulting in tissue destruction and 2) lack of oxygen to the brain caused by bleeding and loss of blood pressure."

Newgard discusses the body's blood loss sensory and compensatory mechanisms (venous constriction, increased cardiac output and vascular fluid transfer), and the degree in which these mechanisms respond to, and compensate for, hemorrhagic shock. He reviews clinical tests of human tolerance for blood loss, which "demonstrate that adequate blood pressure can be maintained with minimal symptoms until a 20% blood deficit was reached." Newgard provides the following example:

"For an average 70 kg (155 lb.) male the cardiac output will be 5.5 liters (~1.4 gallons) per minute. His blood volume will be 60 ml per kg (0.92 fl. oz. per lb.) or 4200 ml (~1.1 gallons). Assuming his cardiac output can double under stress (as his heart beats faster and with greater force). his aortic blood flow can reach 11 liters (~2.8 gallons) per minute. If one assumes a wound that totally severs the thoracic aorta, then it would take 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. This is the minimum time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume.... This analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perfusing the brain, that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.

"Most wounds will not bleed at this rate because: 1) bullets usually do not transect (completely sever) blood vessels, 2) as blood pressure falls, the bleeding slows, 3) surrounding tissue acts as a barrier to blood loss, 4) the bullet may only penetrate smaller blood vessels, 5) bullets can disrupt tissue without hitting any major blood vessels resulting in a slow ooze rather than rapid bleeding, and 6) the above mentioned compensatory mechanisms."

Newgard investigates the survival times of persons who received fatal gunshot wounds to determine if the person who was shot had enough time to shoot back. He concludes:

"Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant."

* italicized text added for clarity.
This above article analyzes the effects of a single projectile penetrating deep enough to transsect the Aeorta. If anyone belives that birdshot will be able to trump a .38-.45 caliber hole in someone's heart... :?


And watch this:


Maybe your thinking that when shot, people automatically retreat, which is not always the case. If a man that happens to be on PCP decides to break into your house and you blast him with birdshot, do you really think that its going to be near enough to stop him?

glockfire 05-05-2008 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkt (Post 23226)
No question, you want buckshot for home defense. But use your head and consider overpenetration issues. #2 buck is very likely to make an intruder settle down quickly and may be less likely to cause problems for innocents in the next room or house than 00.

As always, use what you're comfortable with, but consider the effects consequences.

This is true for time when penetration is a factor, Id go with #1 Buck though as it seems to work the best in that situation.


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