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Old 04-18-2013, 02:45 AM   #31
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Lethal cocktail. Like it
bad advice. read all the threads relating to less than lethal ammo. could cause you more problems than you realize. could cause you legal problems trying to justfy their use or cause you to end up dead. might want to research them some before thinking about using them.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:51 AM   #32
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bad advice. read all the threads relating to less than lethal ammo. could cause you more problems than you realize. could cause you legal problems trying to justfy their use or cause you to end up dead. might want to research them some before thinking about using them.
Good point. After I read some more I tend to think the rubber shot is not the way to go.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:59 AM   #33
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Good point. After I read some more I tend to think the rubber shot is not the way to go.
i and many others have discused this quite a bit over the years. many different threads on the subject.

IMO, a BG breaking into your home is a threat. my job is to stop that threat, period. with whatever means i feel is needed.

i don't believe in giving warning shots, or shooting to wound, or using less than lethal ammo. too many possible problems associated with going those routes.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:09 AM   #34
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personally, I use #4 for everything but my 12ga isn't my goto HD either. I do have a special stash of 00 if it needs to be though.

Gotta say the rubber is a bad bad choice for HD and especially for first round. An assumption of innocence, childish stupidity or desperation CANNOT factor in if you are willing to use lethal force. Its a zero sum situation. You are committing to lethal force or you are not. To do otherwise is to put yourself at risk. What if that first rubber round fired, is actually at a person with a raised firearm? Then you are at a terrible disadvantage and maybe dead.

I get where duddie is coming from. A shot with a rubber 12ga would hurt like hell and maybe deter that stupid kid from making more bad choices. You know who it wouldn't deter? Every other hard ass that knows you fire rubber first.

This is the truth of it: If people are known to die breaking into homes then that is a more of a deterrent than a thousand rubber bullets. Didn't say it was pretty, I said it was the truth. For the same reason smart peolple don't keep Bengal tigers in their homes, smart people will avoid home invasion. You cant declaw the tiger and expect others to respect the danger.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:16 AM   #35
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i and many others have discused this quite a bit over the years. many different threads on the subject.

IMO, a BG breaking into your home is a threat. my job is to stop that threat, period. with whatever means i feel is needed.

i don't believe in giving warning shots, or shooting to wound, or using less than lethal ammo. too many possible problems associated with going those routes.
When it comes time to use your gun, it should be the last option so I would go with lethal rounds. There also is a whole legal side to using less lethal ammo. Always be prepared.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:18 AM   #36
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very well said Cattledog. i agree with that 100%.

IMO, you either make the choice to using deadly force or you don't. there is no in between here. in the case of Duddie, if in the state he lives in requires him to retreat before he's allowed to defend himself, then using rubber pelleted ammo could be just as bad had he used regualr shotgun ammo and be the beginnings of some really bad legal problems.

i livein Texas, and we have a Castle Law and by law, i'm not required to retreat when faced with a threat and in fear for my life or my loved ones. a person needs to research the laws in their state to know what is legal an what isn't.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:36 AM   #37
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Good point. After I read some more I tend to think the rubber shot is not the way to go.
If I have to break out a gun in defence in doin it with lethal force, not rubber loads.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:37 AM   #38
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very well said Cattledog. i agree with that 100%.

IMO, you either make the choice to using deadly force or you don't. there is no in between here. in the case of Duddie, if in the state he lives in requires him to retreat before he's allowed to defend himself, then using rubber pelleted ammo could be just as bad had he used regualr shotgun ammo and be the beginnings of some really bad legal problems.

i livein Texas, and we have a Castle Law and by law, i'm not required to retreat when faced with a threat and in fear for my life or my loved ones. a person needs to research the laws in their state to know what is legal an what isn't.

The law is always a consideration. Thats why I said it's either lethal or not. I don't care if someone comes on here and says theyll use all rubber rounds. Maybe they cant stand the thought of killing, maybe they have restrictive laws. Thats all respectable enough. The point is to draw the line. It's lethal defense or its not. The idea of transitioning between lethal and non-lethal in the same firearm, in the same adrenaline filled moment is just not practical and more importantly, dangerous. Local PD 's dont do it and theyre trained by democrats.

On a side note: The legal BS surrounding less than lethal rounds is one of those things that isnt fought enough.

I may have to bug my congressman again
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:53 AM   #39
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The law is always a consideration. Thats why I said it's either lethal or not. I don't care if someone comes on here and says theyll use all rubber rounds. Maybe they cant stand the thought of killing, maybe they have restrictive laws. Thats all respectable enough. The point is to draw the line. It's lethal defense or its not. The idea of transitioning between lethal and non-lethal in the same firearm, in the same adrenaline filled moment is just not practical and more importantly, dangerous. Local PD 's dont do it and theyre trained by democrats.

On a side note: The legal BS surrounding less than lethal rounds is one of those things that isnt fought enough.

I may have to bug my congressman again
I dident relise rubber buck can bring so much buck. And yes pd does transition between less lethel and lethel. i.e. tazer peper spray tear gas rubber rounds bean bag round. Thats why the rounds where developed. And in no way shape or form did i say to use them i stated that its what i may load up. To get back on topic i would say take a few rounds of the 12ga pdx and shoot them. Does any one have any thing to say about the pdx? Should i be afraid of legal ramafications from blooding my walls up??
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:06 AM   #40
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I dident relise rubber buck can bring so much buck. And yes pd does transition between less lethel and lethel. i.e. tazer peper spray tear gas rubber rounds bean bag round. Thats why the rounds where developed. And in no way shape or form did i say to use them i stated that its what i may load up. To get back on topic i would say take a few rounds of the 12ga pdx and shoot them. Does any one have any thing to say about the pdx? Should i be afraid of legal ramafications from blooding my walls up??
Your legal ramifications are your own. You need to look them up. The lethal vs non point I was making referred to having them in the same firearm. LEOs do not do that. In fact its a violation of policy to mix the two. They make a decision one way or the other before an engagement and they have the advantage of having back up AND being in a position to have a delayed response. IE: they are not on site at the time of the call. They show up later, asses the situation, and make the determination. An HD situation has no back up, no delayed response to consider the action (weapon) to be used. There is one choice and it has to be made beforehand. Thats the point.
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