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Old 03-10-2014, 05:37 PM   #21
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I'm planning to purchase a shotgun. Probably the Mossberg 88 12 gauge. I have zero experience with shotguns.
I've come to a point in my life where giving GOOD advice is more important than giving a popular view on a issue. DON't buy a shotgun.!!!!!!!

You are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Since you said this is your first shotgun, then you need to get one that you will actually use. Will you be using it for duck or geese hunting, then you will need a 32 inch barrel, smooth bore barrel that will take steel shot. Will you be using it for deer hunting, then you will need a 24 inch rifled barrel for slugs that has sights on it. Will you be shooting skeet with it, then you need at least a 28 inch barrel that accepts 5 or 6 different chokes for the barrel. Will you be turkey hunting with it, then again a longer 32 inch barrel that will accept a turkey choke.

While I can drive screws in with a hammer and drive nails in with the handle of my screwdriver, neither tool was made for the wrong task.

The most popular caliber for shotguns is 12 gauge, the easiest caliber to learn how to use a shotgun is the 410, the best all around caliber for a beginner on a shotgun is the 20 gauge.(but the shells will be a bit more expensive)

I am not a fan of the shotgun even though I have own a many over the past 30 years, I am a fan of semi-auto pistols and rifles and that is what I shoot the most.

My last shotgun purchase was made about one year ago for one purpose and one purpose only. And yes, it sits in the gun cabinet unused waiting for the day I will need it just as my power planner sits in the tool box waiting for the day I will need it.

My advice is to get something you will actually use, unless you are purchasing it just as an insurance policy for that 1 in a million chance that you might actual have to use it.

Jim

Here is what I got - Weahterby 12 gauge pump, 18.5 inch barrel, pistol grip, railed shights, breaching choke, smooth bore that accepts 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells, either slugs or 00 buck shot. The slip on recoil pad is there because the stock was made to be used with a tactical vest and the length of pull is too short for use without one.

advise purchasing shotgun and ammo - General Shotgun Discussion

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Old 03-10-2014, 10:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
100% wrong!!!
Bird shot is 'BIRD SHOT'. It will not give you good results in a human target.
Actual shooting and testing have proven this EVERYTIME.
The smallest shot you can count on to defeat heavy clothing and penetrate to the vitals is BB shot. The smallest shot I would recommend you use, if you are concerned about over penetration of walls, is #2 shot.
When considering what shot size to use in a shot gun you MUST consider the effect of only ONE of the projectiles in the load on the intended target.

Reference the 'gun'. If you have not already bought it I would suggest you give a H&R Partner strong consideration. It is basically an 870 Rem but for around $200.
i have to disagree Jim. at very close range, even birdshot is deadly. i have tested myself #4 birdshot at 10 yards. it can and will penetrate 1/2" plywood, a quarter panel on a car, even a windshield of a car. how much more penetration is needed? is a human being, even with heavy clothing more immune to the effects of #4 birdshot at the realistic distances that would be used within the home? somehow i doubt it. but for many to say that only buckshot is effective for SD/HD use, IMO is nothing more than a myth or misconception that i have found to be simply not to be true.

funny thing is, and i have spoken to others, including my father who uses #4 birdshot in his shotgun for SD purposes, is they have said ask someone who believes that birdshot isn't effective, to volunteer to be a testing dummy. funny, so far, not one person will volunteer, but they still contend that it's not effective. hmmmmmm..........

here's a couple of videos testing birdshot.



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Old 03-10-2014, 10:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
I've come to a point in my life where giving GOOD advice is more important than giving a popular view on a issue. DON't buy a shotgun.!!!!!!!

You are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Since you said this is your first shotgun, then you need to get one that you will actually use. Will you be using it for duck or geese hunting, then you will need a 32 inch barrel, smooth bore barrel that will take steel shot. Will you be using it for deer hunting, then you will need a 24 inch rifled barrel for slugs that has sights on it. Will you be shooting skeet with it, then you need at least a 28 inch barrel that accepts 5 or 6 different chokes for the barrel. Will you be turkey hunting with it, then again a longer 32 inch barrel that will accept a turkey choke.

While I can drive screws in with a hammer and drive nails in with the handle of my screwdriver, neither tool was made for the wrong task.

The most popular caliber for shotguns is 12 gauge, the easiest caliber to learn how to use a shotgun is the 410, the best all around caliber for a beginner on a shotgun is the 20 gauge.(but the shells will be a bit more expensive)

I am not a fan of the shotgun even though I have own a many over the past 30 years, I am a fan of semi-auto pistols and rifles and that is what I shoot the most.

My last shotgun purchase was made about one year ago for one purpose and one purpose only. And yes, it sits in the gun cabinet unused waiting for the day I will need it just as my power planner sits in the tool box waiting for the day I will need it.

My advice is to get something you will actually use, unless you are purchasing it just as an insurance policy for that 1 in a million chance that you might actual have to use it.

Jim

Here is what I got - Weahterby 12 gauge pump, 18.5 inch barrel, pistol grip, railed shights, breaching choke, smooth bore that accepts 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells, either slugs or 00 buck shot. The slip on recoil pad is there because the stock was made to be used with a tactical vest and the length of pull is too short for use without one.
Like you will need to breach any doors in the near future. A pistol grip really isn't much help with a pump shotgun. A Maverick 88 does everything a Weatherby pump shotgun will do but it will hold eight 3" shells while it is doing it. You butchered up a nice Weatherby shotgun to make it look like a Stevens 320 that costs $191.

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Old 03-10-2014, 10:59 PM   #24
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Like you will need to breach any doors in the near future. A pistol grip really isn't much help with a pump shotgun. A Maverick 88 does everything a Weatherby pump shotgun will do but it will hold eight 3" shells while it is doing it. You butchered up a nice Weatherby shotgun to make it look like a Stevens 320.

advise purchasing shotgun and ammo - General Shotgun Discussion
sorry JD, but BigJim didn't butcher anything.it comes from Weatherby just like that. here is alink to their site showing the exact same shotgun.

http://www.weatherby.com/product/shotguns/pump_tr/pa459_digitaltr
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:32 PM   #25
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funny thing is, and i have spoken to others, including my father who uses #4 birdshot in his shotgun for SD purposes, is they have said ask someone who believes that birdshot isn't effective, to volunteer to be a testing dummy. funny, so far, not one person will volunteer, but they still contend that it's not effective. hmmmmmm..........



Well said.

Jim what is your goal in HD/SD? For most it is just to stop the threat.Even a less than lethal bean bag will put most guys on their back side. If you won't take the bird shot why not a bean bag? Nothing coming out of a 12g will be pleasant and very few will want to stick around for the next round.

I wasn't arguing that bird shot was the best simple that it is hard to select a useless 12g round.

The argument could be made that a shotgun isn't the most practical choice at all. My preference is a semiauto pistol with extra mags. Easier to clear rooms, easier to reload and you stand a chance to hang onto it in a scuffle. But to each his own.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:57 PM   #26
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Well said.

Jim what is your goal in HD/SD? For most it is just to stop the threat.Even a less than lethal bean bag will put most guys on their back side. If you won't take the bird shot why not a bean bag? Nothing coming out of a 12g will be pleasant and very few will want to stick around for the next round.

I wasn't arguing that bird shot was the best simple that it is hard to select a useless 12g round.

The argument could be made that a shotgun isn't the most practical choice at all. My preference is a semiauto pistol with extra mags. Easier to clear rooms, easier to reload and you stand a chance to hang onto it in a scuffle. But to each his own.
i have to argue against the bean bag rounds, or any less than lethal rounds on the premise that in a situation where a gun would be used, if you didn't feel the need to use lethat force to stop the threat, then there is the possiblity they might determine you shouldn't have been using a gun in the first place. there have been a few threads that have addressed that issue of less than lethal loads for SD/HD usage.

but moving on, the main objective is a home invasion is one, to protect your family, yourself and to stay alive. two, to stop the threat in any manner that is legal for you to use. this can vary state to state and this needs to be checked out with the laws in your state. now i live in the state of Texas, and by law, i am not required to retreat and am able to use deadly force in defence of myself or my loved ones and even my property.

in the event that someone invades my home and i take a shot at them and they are only wounded or that i miss completely, if they leave the premises and flee the scene, they are legally no longer a threat. if i pursue them, andshoot them, then i have reached some very shaky ground legally and could possibly be charged with manslaughter or attempted murder. i went after someone that was no longer a threat and shot at them or shot them.

now if they continue on with continueing to invade my home, then i am within my legal rights to continue firing until the threat is eliminated. by going outside the home, i can see a couple of scenarios that might be played out that are not great outcomes. if you have just went through a home invasion, and after having fired a shot or two. and the BG has left the premises, you should be or have been on the phone with 911 so they can get help there. now here's why i think going after the BG is a bad idea. what if there are multiple BG's outside? he might not be alone. what if the BG's outside are armed? IMO, being inside your home gives you the advantage of being more capable of defending yourself if there are more than one BG's. two, you did call 911, right? if you did, and you are outside, and they arrive and see you with a gun, then now he has to waste valuable time in determining that you are not the BG and now the BG has had a bigger lead in getting away. so if on the phone with 911 andthey know the homeowners are inside, the person on the outside running is the one they are going to concentrate on.

these are just my thoughts on how i think it should be approached. these are not the Gospel and every situation is or can be different and may require a different approach. there are many different variable that make every situation unique. your loacation? urban or rural? LE response time. Long or short? number of occupants in the home. single, married, or married with children? just too many things to have one answer to cover everything that might happen.
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:01 AM   #27
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Axxe55

I was not suggesting a bean bag for SD/HD but for the test dummy.

My point was that no one wants to be on the receiving end of a 12g no matter the load.
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:06 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by bobbygeegee View Post
I'm planning to purchase a shotgun. Probably the Mossberg 88 12 gauge. I have zero experience with shotguns.

My questions:

1. What ammo is best for HD?

2. Should I use the same ammo for range shooting or is there a more economical choice that will still help me become proficient with the HD ammo?
back to the original question, nothing wrong with the gun you want. if you're only using if for defense, buy one with the 18.5" barrel, you can always buy a bird barrel for it later.

buy the cheap target loads (you can get 100 round packs for about $20 here) & shoot the hell out of it at the range so you know where it hits versus where you're aiming. yes, you do have to aim a shotgun. buy a box or 2 of whatever you're gonna use for HD & shoot that after you're comfortable with using the the target loads
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:23 AM   #29
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I keep Hornady TAP 00 reduced recoil loads in my Mossberg. I love this load. Consistent patterns, and very manageable recoil. My 100 lb daughter shoots it well, and the targets certainly show it's an effective round. Highly recommended.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:00 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ams556 View Post
Axxe55

I was not suggesting a bean bag for SD/HD but for the test dummy.

My point was that no one wants to be on the receiving end of a 12g no matter the load.
my remark was more sarcastic than anything. my point is, none of them are willing to put their money where their mouth is. that simple.

i was once even told that my suggestion was rather stupid. hmmm....let's evaluate that. let's ponder how much damage #4 birdshot will do to the human body at say 10 yards. unless their body is able to resist what it does to a 1/2" thick peice of plywood, or the metal in a quarter panel of a car, i suspect the damage to be rather intense.

now, i'm a realist, and i do know that buckshot is more effective, but to discount birdshot as not being effective is to not to give credit where it's due. i am not in the least assuming #4 birdshot is effective at very close range, i know for a fact it is.

i have said all i need to say and will let others make their own choices.
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