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12ga stopping power???


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Old 09-01-2012, 04:21 PM   #31
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Sorry to burst your bubble with three-shot-burst, but it's important.

Just using that one example says it all... The military wanted to increase fire power becasue no-one could be "trained" to actually do what they were supposed to and actually shoot at long range targets (over a coupla hundred yards) thus keeping the enemy at a distance. Also, the soldiers couldn't hit a blessed thing. It is HUNDREDS of thousands of rounds fired for every one enemy casualty. But wait, there's more...

When they gave troops fully automatic weapons, they still couldn't hit much and just wasted more ammo, particularly the vaunted Marine's where each is a rifleman first, so they took away their full auto and gave them three-shot burst.

Now let's look at the most recent big-city shooting. One man fires a low-capacity handgun twice into an old, hated, colleague and the veteran cops fire 18 rounds at the killer. They kill him with seven rounds and hit NINE civilians in the process! Civilains are seven times more likely to hit their target in a shootout than cops.

As I said, sorry.

If you think you are going to stop a charging bear with a single well placed shot, good luck. I recommend improving one's odds. Big plated magnum buckshot, Triball, maybe even bear spray over a slug. Slugs are fine IMO for hunting and shots where YOU determine the time, place, and method -- not when the bear does.
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble with three-shot-burst, but it's important.

Just using that one example says it all... The military wanted to increase fire power becasue no-one could be "trained" to actually do what they were supposed to and actually shoot at long range targets (over a coupla hundred yards) thus keeping the enemy at a distance. Also, the soldiers couldn't hit a blessed thing. It is HUNDREDS of thousands of rounds fired for every one enemy casualty. But wait, there's more...

When they gave troops fully automatic weapons, they still couldn't hit much and just wasted more ammo, particularly the vaunted Marine's where each is a rifleman first, so they took away their full auto and gave them three-shot burst.

Now let's look at the most recent big-city shooting. One man fires a low-capacity handgun twice into an old, hated, colleague and the veteran cops fire 18 rounds at the killer. They kill him with seven rounds and hit NINE civilians in the process! Civilains are seven times more likely to hit their target in a shootout than cops.

As I said, sorry.

If you think you are going to stop a charging bear with a single well placed shot, good luck. I recommend improving one's odds. Big plated magnum buckshot, Triball, maybe even bear spray over a slug. Slugs are fine IMO for hunting and shots where YOU determine the time, place, and method -- not when the bear does.
I think we are trying to say the same thing, in a panic the chances of making a well placed shot are almost zero. If you practice you will only improve you chances slightly that's not something I would bet my life on.
As far as the 000buck, I'm old enough to remember back when we used 00buck to hunt deer & I think that is why we in Indiana stopped using 00buck was there were too many wounded deer walking around.
Sorry to burst your bubble!
The 000buck or 00buck doesn't work the reason why is the bullet is traveling too slow to cause hydrostatic shock that is what brings large animals to an instant stop.

If you want to do a little reading on the subject here is a link that will help clear this up.
http://www.buckmasters.com/the-shotgun-slug-knockdown-myth-1.aspx
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Below is my Alaska camp gun. As such it's loaded with 3" Magnum Plated #000 Buckshot.
Awesome, our HD shotgun is also loaded with 3" 000 Buck. I don't know if it's Magnum Plated. will have to look and see.


Fast forward to 4:22
watch what a slug will do! HOLY FFFFF
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:28 PM   #34
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I can't account for poor shooters and worse hunters, but, the large 10 Buckshot, or any projectiles fired at bear for that matter, need to be hardened lead or plated to help penetrate reasonably. That's especially true in Indiana where they're apparently slower.

Hydrostatic shock -- it's like a flashback to 1979. Maybe we need a super-vel .380 -- that'll stop anything.

If I knew I'd hit and it'd be a killing hit on a charging bear I'd prefer a slug too. But as pointed out that isn't trainable, foolproof, or especially reliable. I prefer to have 10 .36 Buckshot, 1.8 ounces, of lead at 1,200 fps than one one-ounce slug at 1,600. I'd loaded Dixie Triball 3", with three .60 hardcast ball, 2.2 ounces, at 1,050 fps but moved back to big factory loads -- I just trusted them more.

When you seriously have to worry about brown bear and maybe even wolves as predators, YMMV, but all I can most especially say if you go with slugs is...

...better make it count and good luck.

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Old 09-02-2012, 01:47 AM   #35
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Those are the heaviest loads I ever heard. 1 1/8 oz is probably the heaviest slug I have.

Nobody would go for a face shot? 00 buck to the bears face. Thought that might stop it from charging.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:17 PM   #36
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That's kinda what I'm saying actually. I anticipate ranges at 15 to 30 yards, max, in defensive shooting. Likely mostly head-on.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:20 AM   #37
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Exactly! Face-shot only. I would go with buck.
Although, I could probably also load slug/buck/ slug/buck/ slug/buck/
kind of cover my bases. I don't see my self shooting just once.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:30 AM   #38
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Police and game wardens in alaska arm themselves with 12ga shotguns using slugs to fend off grizzly. Those are a bit bigger than black bear. I would think that alaskans would know what works on the biggest bears.

Buckshot works great in defending against other humans. Against animals its about on par with a 38special. What makes buckshot so effective is multiple hits close together at the same time.

Shotshells dont automagically have a target seeking guidance system. You still have to aim just the same as using a rifle or pistol. Dont believe me?? go to a trap or skeet range and see how you do on skeet without aimimg just firing from the hip.

Shotguns arent a magic wand that makes marksmanship a nonfactor
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:01 AM   #39
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My pops was a Policeman and one night he and his partner chased a car thief into a warehouse at night. My dads partener grabbed the 12g it was loaded with 00 buck and sluggs, his dept. Loaded them, buck shot, slug, buck shot etc. Anyway the car thief had climbed up into the racks in the ware house and was hiding.

The lights were out and they went in after the thief. To make a long story short, my dads partner ended up shooting the guy in the chest with 00 buck at about 20 feet. My pops said th buck shot ripped the guy sternum out and they could see his organs,the guy was gurggling and sputtering blood for about 30 seconds before he expired.

The point is, buck shot is a real man stopper. Don't know about bears, but Davy Crockett killed bears by the bushell shooting a .36 calibur muzzle loader, so a 12g slug out to do the trick. A shotgun is the most versatile weapon around, and in the right hands you can take any sized game effectivly. An ounce o soft lead at 850 fps, is a pretty wicked thing.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:20 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by gladesbassin View Post
I live in south Florida, 20 mins from south beach and 15 minutes from the Everglades. Best of both worlds. Although I do love the country side and travel to ga occasionally. What about yourself?
So you must know the "Loop Road" and the "Ten Thousand Islands". The best hunting I saw in that area was on the Palmetto.
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