Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > Why isn't a 7.62x39 AR the Perfect Rifle?

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Old 10-28-2009, 03:19 AM   #31
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The perfect system is my 5.45x39 upper. It goes great with all those spam cans I bought back when they were $65 a case.

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Old 10-28-2009, 06:04 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cory2 View Post
I assume when you reference "russian super technology" you are refering(sp?) to the 7n14 which is a round that can go through the interceptor vest INCLUDING ballistic plate with one round which is something no round ever can do out of an AR10 or AR 15 ever ever ever without many rounds being fired. It is also a round that is capable of way below 1 moa and HAS DONE SO out of the dragonuv... because that was the gun it was designed for. I believe the last time I read about the round it was being fired from a dragunov and was hitting <.9 moa.

Here is alot more information about the round that makes the rifle so to speak.
Snipers Paradise
.9 moa out of a Dragunov would be something. Seriously though, even the Russians were happy if it held 2 moa.

Sniper Rifles of the World

Yes you could probably improve on that with special loads, but in the field, special loads weren't that common to come by. So for the most part, their shooters were stuck with what was available, normally 7.62x54 AP rounds (7N1 class or ball loads -7N26). It wasn't really designed as a 'sniper' rifle, but more of an extended range squad rifle, which got used more in the sniper role, due to the longer range and better accuracy than the squad auto weapons.

But SVD's using 7N14 ammo, in the right hands, under the right conditions, is very capable of excellent accuracy. Tests have shown it capable of 1/2" groups at 100 meters. Is this the norm? Most likely...no. But they are capable of better accuracy than some would like to give them credit for.

Using some Soviet match ammo in my SVD, it will shoot 1.5moa @ 100 yards without really trying. It's not 7N14 Sniper Ammo, but in a pinch, it will suffice. It isn't my go-to piece for accuracy work. I have a better "sling shot" for that.

Slo
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:23 PM   #33
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Default 7.62x39 AR

The only reason I could see for getting a 7.62x39 AR is because with amount of ammo I shoot it would pay for the gun by buying these rounds and not having to buy the more expensive .223 rounds.

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Old 10-13-2010, 01:52 AM   #34
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Well, that would be easy. A true Dragunov would probably go from $6K to $10K based on condition & accessory.

I will take the knock off, chinese copy, stamped receiver price of about $800 sans optics.

Fair?

Howa model 1500 in various calibers. For a true sniper round, you need something larger than .223 in my opinion. There are a ton of rifles there under $800 and you could have them glass bedded for $100 to improve accuracy even further....

Weatherby Vanguard same as the Howa, but you can get two levels of accuracy guaranteed. their basic package can be had for as little as $550 bucks and will shoot 1.5 MOA with factory ammo all day long, or they will replace it free. Their SUB-moa rifles are around $950 and will shoot .99 MOA or less, with factory ammo, or they will replace it free.

I could pick 5 rifles from each link and be done, but what fun would that be?

Remington 700 SPS this one is in .300 Win, which will do the job. $550 and you can spend $200 on a glass bed, a trigger job and new extractor. Still be under the $800 price tag....

Browning X Bolt is a good stick and already has a free floated barrel. A little more than $800, but you don't have to have it floated for accuracy.

Now, how about used rifles??

Any of the ones mentioned used would be just as good.

Find an old Winchester Model 70 at an estate sale or in someone's old man's war chest. Buy it. Those are God's own design and one of the best.

You can buy an action for $200 at a gun show from time to time. Maybe $300 if the guy really knows what he has got and has lapped the lugs for you.

Have your own rifle built on that platform.

Now, you want a semi auto in that price range??

Well, you got to wait until after dinner....
There's no such thing as a Chinese knock off stamped receiver SVD. All SVD's are milled. Of course bolt actions are going to be more accurate, the SVD wasn't made to deliver the accuracy of a bolt action, it's made to deliever quick accurate. Have you ever fired a Dragunov?
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:43 PM   #35
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How do the ars in 7.62x39 function using steel cased cartridges? I have seen very little brass cased rounds and what I have found is about 1 dollar a round,also I am having a hard time finding used brass.
you get light primer strikes and some don't feed well. Extra pwer spring or a little machining helps the primer issue, which is an ammo issue. the feed issue may now be solved with the latest Bushmaster offering. The feed ramp now looks like it belongs on a 1911 as opposed to an AR. I sell quite a few of these uppers and it is strange from one to the next, one guy runs full auto with no issue and I ran one that was a 50% FTF ratio(steel ammo). the brass ammo runs anywhere from .60 to .75 per round from remington and I've never had an issue with the brass
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:28 AM   #36
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Just shot a bunch of the new horandy 7.62 x 39 V-MAX rounds. Very good for half the price of cor-bon.

If you are shooting at Zombies with level IV body armor then you better aim for the head. other than that there is nothing wrong with this round for 99.9% of zombie engagements.

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Old 10-14-2010, 12:51 PM   #37
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This is one seriously dusty thread. If you must have brass, there is relatively inexpensive and only mildy corrosive surplus ammo available at classicarms.us and surely at some other outlets.

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Old 10-14-2010, 02:48 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Ermac View Post
There's no such thing as a Chinese knock off stamped receiver SVD. All SVD's are milled. Of course bolt actions are going to be more accurate, the SVD wasn't made to deliver the accuracy of a bolt action, it's made to deliever quick accurate. Have you ever fired a Dragunov?
Not true. Russian SVD's, the original and real ones, are machined receivers. Both the Romanian and Chinese had versions that were knock offs of the original design and feature many "cut rate" parts that included stamped receivers often classified as RPK.

The Romanian model is known as a PSL. I believe the Chinese version was a type 79.

The Chinese did also make a true copy of the SVD that featured a milled receiver and was marketed/sold under the NDM86 SVD Dragunov, which is more highly sought after, and also much more expensive.

And yes, I have fired one. It's not great, it's effective. But it would never be a choice for someone that was serious about their craft in the field.

JD
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:09 PM   #39
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I've been playing around with a 7.62x39 AR I built a couple months ago, the recoil is a bit stouter than from a 556 as you might expect but the problem with accuracy is the ammo. If you are going to roll your own that won't be a problem ... consistancy and softer primers will solve all the problems I've been having. The ammo that shoots most consistantly in my AK's is a brass cased com-bloc stuff I've had for years but in the AR, about every 5-6 round I get FTF's ... good primer hits and no detonation. With Wolf, inconsistant powder charges is the one thing you can count (no to mention how dirty it is) I can get 2-4 moa with wolf which sucks because I can get that from an AK ... but I'm still working on it.

I just sold my Romanian PSL in 7.62x54R which would shoot around 1.25 at 100 for the first 5-6 rounds ... then the barrel would start heating up and would open to 6" or so after 15-20 rounds it wouldn't hold a candle to my Siaga 308 ... which went down the road also.

I've got several AR's in 556, a AR57 and AR-10 and even an out of the box gun they are hard to beat ... if you add a 2 stage trigger or (good single stage) they are easliy sub-moa with good ammo ... match ammo or hand loads sub 1/2" moa is pretty easily obtainable.

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Old 10-14-2010, 11:21 PM   #40
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I forgot to add that since C-Products is producing a 7.62x39 AR mag that issue is no longer a problem either

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