Why isn't a 7.62x39 AR the Perfect Rifle? - Page 10
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > Why isn't a 7.62x39 AR the Perfect Rifle?

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Old 06-04-2012, 06:53 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin

Man this is a thread that will not die!
There's a very logical explanation for that Q
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:28 PM   #92
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No gory photos but happend to run across this on Wiki

Inspired by a supposed lack of power offered by the 5.56 NATO cartridge used in the M4 and the M16, the .458 SOCOM came about from informal discussion of members of the special operations community, specifically Task Force Ranger's experience that multiple shots were required to neutralize members of the opposing force in Mogadishu during Operation Gothic Serpent. Marty ter Weeme designed the cartridge in 2000 and Tony Rumore of Tromix, Corp was contracted to build the first .458 SOCOM rifle in February 2001. Tony Rumore fired the very first round of .458 SOCOM ammunition in the Tromix shop located in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma on February 16th, 2001, at 8:30pm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM

Now I know the .458 also has limitations but boy is it fun to shoot,

Ballistic performance

.458 socom
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
250 gr (16 g) 609.6 m/s (2,000 ft/s) 2,938 J (2,167 ft·lbf)
300 gr (19 g) 580 m/s (1,900 ft/s) 3,261 J 2,405 ft·lbf

5.56 Nato
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
4 g (62 gr) SS109 FMJBT 940 m/s (3,100 ft/s) 1,767 J (1,303 ft·lbf)
4.1 g (63 gr) DM11 FMJBT 936 m/s (3,070 ft/s) 1,796 J (1,325 ft·lbf)
4.1 g (63 gr) GP 90 FMJBT 905 m/s (2,970 ft/s) 1,679 J (1,238 ft·lbf)

7.62x39
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
123 gr (8.0 g) Full metal jacket 731.5 m/s (2,400 ft/s) 2,073.6 J (1,529.4 ft·lbf)
154 gr (10.0 g) Spitzer SP 641.3 m/s (2,104 ft/s) 2,056.3 J (1,516.6 ft·lbf)
123.5 gr (8.00 g) Full metal jacket 804.7 m/s (2,640 ft/s) 2,460 J (1,810 ft·lbf)
123 gr (8.0 g) Full metal jacket 738 m/s (2,420 ft/s) 2,179 J (1,60

Numbers do not lie, the 5.56 is a nasty tumbler but energy is energy and 7.62x39 with 2,460j and .458 socom with 3,261 J can do the same damage as a 5.56 just worst, lol nothing is deader than dead but being able to get up and run off is a lot harder with being hit by either of those rounds opposed to the 5.56.

Still the 5.56 is a good range out/close in round and has served its purpose, if change happens hopefully it will be for better guns or ammo and not just to save cost by our government and before any one says "they would not do that", look around they had done a lot we thought they would not do.

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Old 06-04-2012, 09:14 PM   #93
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There should be a ban on linking Wiki. That site can have decent info but the data is user supplied. Which translates to, questionable.

Personal experience: we were in a convoy headed back to the FOB when when we drove into contact. After everything was said and done on of the SOF guys was shot in the knee. I had to ask twice, "who?" The guy was walking around right in front of my face like nothing had happened, not even a limp w/ all his gear on. x39 to the knee and you would never know by looking. In my case I had to be told 2 times because I didn't believe them.

These threads will go on forever.

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Old 06-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #94
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Again from a hunting stand point I have seen the 7.62x39 do more damage to animals that are tougher than humans. It could be the same either way with shot placement. For example if the 7.62x39 nicks the bone like the 5.56 did there would be more damage, it prob did not with that guy or it would have been another story MikeJK.

Last but not least I just sold my whole AR in 7.62x39 to this guy at the range for way more than I paid for it lol..........score
Now MikeJK if you got any leads on a 45-70 lever or nice .458 Winchester Magnum bolt gun let me know, lol I am offically done with this thread, as I only have a Ar left in 5.56 and .308, caint talk when you do not have the round any more, but the money in my pocket will dry my tears, lol
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #95
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I just don't see how the .458 was addressing the problem

the troops were having overseas. It drops like a brick after

200 yards, and the reason they were bringing back the M14s

was to deal with threats at 600 yards plus, beyond the range of

the 5.56 round.

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:44 PM   #96
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Me and a friend went halves on a 7.62x39 AR upper a while back that we share. We felt like it was a good option for our SHTF guns when we run across that caliber ammo. Never hurts to be able to change calibers without having an entire rifle dedicated to the AK round. We alternate back and forth with it. Setup works good for us.

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Old 06-25-2012, 06:24 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Succinct View Post
After 47 years of owning nothing more than a Daisy BB gun as a kid, this year I bought a Mossy 500 and an XD-45. I am now scoping out (pardon the pun) rifles. I tried a friend's FAL (7.62 x 51), and it was so brutal that it was just unpleasant to shoot IMHO. On the other hand I love the look of the AR-15, but their 5.56 rounds seemed like popguns in comparison to the mighty 7.62x51 cartidges' sound! So I am thinking a 7.62 x 39 would be perfect, but then I read that the AK suffers from accuracy issues.

So while browsing Able Ammo's site I came across what seemed like the perfect hyrbrid: a 7.62 x 39 AR rifle!! 7.62 x 39 (or larger) is also recommended by Boston T. Party in his book "Boston's Gun Bible" if you are going to have just one rifle, which is probably my case for awhile due to money issues.

Please tell my why I shouldn't jump on a 7.62 x 39 AR. Thanks!

My purpose: Prepare for the revolt, target practice fun. Nothing much else.
HAve you considered the CZ USA 858 yet? my friend bought one for $750 CAD. ITs accurate, its ergonomic, and did I mention reliable? It shoots 7.62x39, its gas piston out of the box. It is striker fired and I think it is an easier field strip then the AR-15 IM-Humlbe-O. Granted there aren't as many modifications around for it but I would say its better then the AK. Just a thought to consider
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:34 PM   #98
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If I only had one choice of caliber, I would stick with the 5.56. It has shortcomings, but so does everything else. Low recoil, accurate, has some range,and currently readily available. Just make sure you get a teir 1 rifle. None of the teir 1's will have an issue with the type of ammo, and will remain reliable for many rounds.

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Old 06-25-2012, 10:31 PM   #99
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So many opinions to consider... I almost hate to add mine but I'll throw it out anyway. I own an both an AK and AR and both have their strong as well as weak points. The 7.62x39 is a very good man stopper and a MORE that adequate hunting round for medium sized game if the range isn't beyond about 300 yards. It's also readily available and as cheap (or cheaper) than 5.56 nato ammo. It does suffer from the fact that the gun it was designed around, the AK-47, was built with the emphasis on reliability and simplicity vs accuracy. I like to think of it as the Russian version of the trusty 30-30 that's been popular here in the U.S. for over a century. OTOH, the AR platform is more accurate and is more easily modified to the users liking. It's major drawbacks are it's more complicated then an AK, more prone to cleaning related problems and it's limited by the simple fact there is only so much that can be done with a bullet in the .22 caliber/60gr range.

As the OP said, a combination of the two guns would make a perfect rifle for many shooters since it combines the heavier hitting round from the AK with the more versatile and accurate AR platform. As someone else said, get an AR lower and if you want the best of both worlds, buy a piston upper in both 7.62 AND 5.56 calibers. Both rounds are inexpensive and commonly available plus having both calibers will expand the rage of target size available from varmints (5.56) to deer, boar or bear (7.62). A gas piston rifle would also allow you to worry less about any dirty ammo you may come across and they shoot cooler. FWIW, the 7.62x39 is a very accurate round in a bolt action or single shot rifle - like some of the CZ and Saiga guns sold in Europe and the states - and some of the other calibers mentioned such as the 6.8 are good choices. However, they aren't readily available in many cases, are more expensive and don't meet the parameters mentioned by the OP.

Bottom line for me is if you want an accurate, long range, hard hitting AR you can get a .308 but you'll have the recoil and higher cost to contend with. If you want less recoil but a bit less range and a cheaper round to shoot, there is the 5.56. OTOH, if you want more punch than the 5.56 offers, don't want the kick of the .308 and don't mind giving up the longer range of the NATO calibers for something in the moderate 200-300 yard range, then the 7.62x39 in an AR is a viable option.

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:30 PM   #100
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The 6.5 Grendel is a good choice. As accurate as a 308. Has better accuracy than the 308 at longer distances. I have been using this gun for several years now and am handloading it with good results. Ammo is available for it also.

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