Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > Why Gas Piston over Direct Impingement?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2010, 09:34 PM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jtischauser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 71
Default

The piston guns are too new and dont offer the same low recoil as the direct impingement guns. Save some money and get what everybody else has. Maybe in 20 years they will come up with something that is actually good enough to make the piston guns worth while.


Last edited by jtischauser; 11-23-2010 at 09:38 PM.
jtischauser is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 06:58 AM   #22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ubergopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,216
Liked 15 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patret View Post
Mr Dillinger,

The reason these post keep going "RE: the m16" is because the Direct Imprigement is a horrible design. A lot of the members know this. There will always be a problem with this operating system. How many Solders and Marines have died because of the M16? You tell me but there is more than one. If you were the one, would you be defending the M16? I hope this post helps some of you and good luck to the rest of you.

Patret
I just gotta focus on the bolded part... I'm pretty sure God forbid if JD dies 'cause of a DI system, he won't be defending it, he won't be doin' much of anything except getting eaten by zombies.
__________________

"This is not about land or money...but the one thing that no man should never be able to take from another man: the freedom to make his own choices about his life, where he'll live, how he'll live, how he'll raise his family. "

William Travis, The Alamo: 13 Days to Glory

Ubergopher is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 11:37 AM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jtischauser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 71
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
I just find it hard to believe that in a urban battlefield scenario a person is going to be shooting THAT MUCH without a time to let the weapon cool and to be able to clean it.

JD
Well said. Except there is no urban battlefield scenario and hasn't been one since the civil war here in the good old USA. I shoot a lot of rounds thru my AR to the tune of 8-10k per year or more. If I were dumb enough to shoot all of those without cleaning oiling or maintaing my rifle then I deserve to have a fouled up and broken rifle.

If a pistol driven system is so great how come we don't have Piston driven shotguns?

DI is cheaper and DI has less recoil. That should be all you need to hear.

Last edited by jtischauser; 12-10-2010 at 11:39 AM.
jtischauser is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 03:29 PM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Viggen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Saratoga Springs,NY
Posts: 2
Default We DO have piston driven shotguns

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtischauser View Post
If a pistol driven system is so great how come we don't have Piston driven shotguns?
The Benelli M4 is a piston driven shotgun... the Auto-Regulating Gas-Operated (A.R.G.O.) Piston-Driven System is also the heart of Benelli’s R1 and MR1 rifles.

I can see BOTH sides of this issue. My .02, stick with DI until piston systems are ubiquitous and the parts are readily interchangeable. There are too many proprietary AR piston designs, albeit each with their own merits. In times of need, I personally would prefer to have readily available parts... from ANY vendors' bin to bring my weapon back to operational status.

--
Viggen
__________________
Viggen is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 10:03 PM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,239
Liked 723 Times on 537 Posts
Likes Given: 690

Default

Welcome, Viggen... Excellent first post BTW!

__________________
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 03:48 PM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 495
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by urban View Post
...is there any good reason to go with a piston system
Forget about all the other comments on this thread. The real answer for why there are so many of both is this:

1.) a lot of people had regular AR's and wanted to buy something new and different.
2.) a lot of people saw their neighbor buy a piston AR and decided they needed one, too.
3.) people have too much money to spend.

There you have it. People always want bigger, better, newer, different. You can get into all the details about how the two types work better or worse for shooting guinness world record-level groupings, or how one is more reliable than the other when stuck in the jungle/desert/mountains/etc against an army of blood-thirsty enemies soldiers... but, of the millions of AR-based rifles in civilian use, how many are shooting world-class matches at 600 yards or battling to the death in the demanding climates of wherever?

Most people take their rifle to the local range and send a few boxes of lead towards a paper target sitting 100 yards away. Then they go home, have a beer and watch TV. Flip a coin to decide, because either rifle will be just fine for them.
__________________
janikphoto is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 06:04 PM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lima,Ohio
Posts: 2,436
Liked 1755 Times on 802 Posts
Likes Given: 1781

Default

I thought another reason for piston guns was a lot less heat in the action. I personally don't care either way. If recoil is an issue for you with a 223 then you might want to stick to air rifles. To the poster that said the military wanted cheaper ammo that isn't true. It was Macnamara the bean counter that wanted the cheaper ammo. It's a battle rifle not a sniper weapon so who cares about that little loss of accuracy. The real problem with the M16 isn't the platform but the caliber. It's a damn varmint round. You should buy what you like. I get a kick out of people who think they are going to fight off the next dictator with small arms when the dictator will have tanks and aircraft. What are you going to do fight off the whole military while you take cover in a wood frame house? Gas or piston they both work get whatever trips your trigger.

__________________
rjd3282 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 06:24 PM   #28
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 495
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
...To the poster that said the military wanted cheaper ammo that isn't true. It was Macnamara the bean counter that wanted the cheaper ammo...
I heard the .223 was adopted to allow infantry men the ability to carry more rounds per pound. You can carry two rounds of .223 for every one 30.06 round.
__________________
janikphoto is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 06:46 PM   #29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3471 Times on 1606 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtischauser View Post
Well said. Except there is no urban battlefield scenario and hasn't been one since the civil war here in the good old USA.
I would guess we have different views of urban combat than. House to house, or hut to hut, fighting in Bosnia, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, short range jungle fights around drug labs in most of South America and lest we forget the lesson's learned in Somalia would all qualify as an "urban battlefield" environment.

Now if the argument was that this particular rifle would probably not see an urban combat experience due to it's location within the confines of the United States border.....

Well.....

The LA Riots
Katrina's Aftermath
Extended Power outages due to extreme weather

And then there is the Southern Border "issue".

I would say the chances of an urban escalated "event" are much higher today than they were 30 years ago.

And I still don't see someone shooting a DI gun to the point of failure in that type of environment as they would still probably be dead from exhaustion/dehydration or blood loss first.

Gas Piston AR's exist because there was a market for them and people could make money.

JD
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 07:44 PM   #30
Moderator
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 16,210
Liked 4454 Times on 2352 Posts
Likes Given: 255

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
It's a damn varmint round.
Its a damn good round for dispatching two legged goblins in the 55grn 1:12 twist barrel and bullet combo. The problem with it today is the 1:7 and 1:9 twist and 62 grn bullets have effectively neutered the round.
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody got a gas piston AR? FALPhil AR-15 Discussion 16 11-11-2010 12:41 PM
Gas or Piston ? ? ? STF AR-15 Discussion 9 04-03-2010 10:44 PM
Direct TV subscribers. skullcrusher The Club House 8 06-22-2009 05:33 PM