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-   -   MUST READ ..illegal to put a 30 rd clip on stock saiga? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f25/must-read-illegal-put-30-rd-clip-stock-saiga-11210/)

CodyWalkerJr 02-23-2009 10:35 PM

MUST READ ..illegal to put a 30 rd clip on stock saiga?
 
so if im interpreting this correctly, even though the assault weapons ban ended in 2004, it is absolutely illegal to stick a 30 rd magazine on a stock saiga?

according to the law 922r(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html

now my question...! the unlawful part here is assembly.to you i mean modification... Or to put it another way, sale, possession and purchase of these weapons, even if illegally modified is not illegal!!!!only making the modifications is illegal. Also if you hire someone to make illegal modifications for you will be guilty under the law as he is

so what do you guys think..any attorneys in the house that can comment on this i need your help!

Txhillbilly 02-23-2009 11:06 PM

Cody,I also have a Saiga 223,and I also have several 30rd Saiga mags along with the 10rd mags that came with the gun. I do not want to convert or change the gun at all. So here lies the question that I have asked on several forums -Has anyone ever heard or know of anybody getting fined/arrested for using a magazine that was designed for this weapon,not a modified mag?
From the answers I have gotten on other forums,nobody has ever known anyone that has,and in my opinion unless you were commiting a crime with the weapon and were arrested,who is going to ever know if the gun is compliant with 922r in the first place.

CodyWalkerJr 02-23-2009 11:16 PM

i assume your right my friend. my problem is that i have the saiga 7.62x 39 that i purchased at a gun show.i had no idea that the 30 rd ak clip wouldn't work .it fit securely in the rifle.but when i got it home it would'nt cycle.i modifiedthe ak mag to work in my rifle (the saiga 7.62 and ak mags are almost identical except for a little lip not present on an ak mag)so i am afraid that may be illegal.

im curious if i take it to the range and shoot with it ,will the range guide recognize it as a sporting rifle with an extended mag or just think im another dude with an ak..ugh. too many laws.i appreciate your input

CodyWalkerJr 02-23-2009 11:23 PM

i guess the problem lies in the term "sporting purposes"...but it also states

"to not be particularly suitable for or READILY ADAPTABLE to sporting purposes"


readily adaptable (key words)

which to me means removing a 30 rd mag and installing a 10 rounder would be be readily adaptable for sporting purpose..hence the name sporting rifle

janikphoto 02-24-2009 05:03 AM

I think you are confusing the law. It is talking about reassembling a parts kit back to military use. Think of all the legal builds from old military AK's... They are assembling using some of the AK parts, but leave out the full auto fire group and some other naughty bits. They can still use a 30 round mag.

The saiga was designed to use unique mags to make it seem less scary, but it isn't illegal to put a 30 round mag in it.

CodyWalkerJr 02-24-2009 10:50 AM

thx for the input. ive seen all or these saiga conversion nuts out there doing all this work on their rifles just to legally put a 30 rd clip in it? it seems cheaper to buy an old ak then convert a new saiga.... anyone agree or disagree?

robocop10mm 02-24-2009 01:03 PM

Section 922(r) does not deal with capacity, it deals with detachability. Under the Federal law you must maintain a certain number of imported vs. US made parts. As long as you "have" the US magazine, you are not prevented from "using" imported magazines.

Remember the "evil" features? Bayonet lug, flash hider, protruding pistol grip, folding/collapsible stock and DETACHABLE magazine. If it came with a detachable mag, capacity does not matter. Converting a fixed mag firearm to take detachables (SKS) is a different issue. The SKS D and SKS M models came with detachable mags. They had fixed stocks, no flash hider and the bayonet lug was ground off. Adding a Tapco stock and/or a flash hider will get you crosswise with the Federal law.

WTS, i spoke to an ATF agent who said he had never heard of a prosecution of an individual for modifying such a firearm. Dealers converting large numbers of guns in a like matter would be a different matter.

CodyWalkerJr 02-24-2009 08:46 PM

that will help me sleep at night robo. my other question is why are all these guys doing expensive saiga conversions to make them "legal or 922r compliant"
are you saying if i want to add a collapsible stock or other "evil features" i will need to add u.s. made parts but if i just put an 30 rd magazine there is no issue there? where does the 10 u.s. made parts, come into play ?

CodyWalkerJr 02-24-2009 08:50 PM

i believe the saigas are made with no parts manufactured in the united states.so it is imported as a "sporting rifle" and not what ATF considers an "assault weapon etc." when adding a higher capacity magazine to the rifle it may not be considered a "sporting" rifle anymore. thanks for the advice ..anymore will help

dunerunner 02-24-2009 10:32 PM

What really has to happen here is for the American gun owning community to declare that since we are not militia, everything we do with any firearm in the USA is for sport. Either that or get enough money to fight 2A Busting laws like this one. No reason at all that someone should be denied any weapon unless their past transgressions prove it would be imprudent.

I know that doesn't help, just had to get a little mad off!! :mad:


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