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-   -   Msar? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f25/msar-77094/)

FullautoUSA 11-25-2012 11:29 PM

Msar?
 
Does anyone have One or an opinion on them

JonM 11-26-2012 12:17 AM

i assume your tlking about one of these:

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/_thum...r_stg556-1.jpg

i see its a bullpup design which means the trigger is going to be abysmal even for a combat rifle and the ergonimcs are going to be atrocious at best. reloading bullpups is about as graceful and smooth as using a broom closet to get into a tuxedo.

FullautoUSA 11-26-2012 12:46 AM

So you don't like it. You have to give the PS90 credit though it is a great gun.

JonM 11-26-2012 02:05 AM

same issues.

its just issues inherent to bullpups. its just a bad design idea. your starting from too deep a hole to overcome. the top loading ps90 is even more clumsy than your standard bullpup.

there were attempts to overcome the trigger linkage issue in the early 90's with electronic primer ignition but its just not reliable enough. remington even had a regular bolt gun recently with electric ignition. it only works when weight isnt a factor like in chain guns.

FullautoUSA 11-26-2012 02:56 AM

I love the ps90

JonM 11-26-2012 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullautoUSA (Post 1027365)
I love the ps90

thats cool lot of folks like em. i was just giving my personal opinion as to why i dont care for the design :) and yes ive shot both but not owned them

homelessguy01 11-26-2012 03:45 AM

A lot of the ergonomic issues with bullpups are training issues. If you train with a bullpup and get used to its design there is no difference. Ie reloading etc

JonM 11-26-2012 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homelessguy01 (Post 1027447)
A lot of the ergonomic issues with bullpups are training issues. If you train with a bullpup and get used to its design there is no difference. Ie reloading etc

to a certain extent. but to manipulate the magazine you have to move one hand to the rear to manipulate the controls then go for a second mag and back to the rear. training can help but your adding extra steps you dont have with a design that isnt a bullpup. no way to get around that extra hand movement

homelessguy01 11-26-2012 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM

to a certain extent. but to manipulate the magazine you have to move one hand to the rear to manipulate the controls then go for a second mag and back to the rear. training can help but your adding extra steps you dont have with a design that isnt a bullpup. no way to get around that extra hand movement

That is true of course, in tight spaces it has an advantage over a full size rifle but over all I'm In agreement with you. An ar is a better rifle

JonM 11-26-2012 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homelessguy01 (Post 1027465)
That is true of course, in tight spaces it has an advantage over a full size rifle but over all I'm In agreement with you. An ar is a better rifle

if my primary military job was riding around in a tank i could see such a gun filling that need. but the scope would be very limited in areas where the length would be advantageous. even then it would just be more effective to have something like a krinkov with a folding stock...


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