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Old 04-05-2013, 06:25 AM   #21
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ARs tend to be more reliable than most folks on the Internet give them credit for. And AKs are more accurate that most folks on the Internet give them credit for. I wouldn't pick an AK to split the line between the 10 ring and x ring in a 600 yd service rifle match but I wouldn't stand still in front of one at 600 yds either.

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Old 04-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #22
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A couple notes-

Regarding accuracy:

The standard for a military issue AR is 4 MOA at 100 yards, or 4 inches at 100 yards using issue ammunition. Most quality AR's will group better than this, but that is the military standard.

The standard for a military issue AK is 4 MOA at 100 yards, or 4 inches at 100 yards using issue ammunition. Again, most quality AK's will group better than this.

Military triggers limit accuracy on both AR's and AK's. Some triggers are better than others. Excessive creep or overtravel, roughness, and/or weight make a consistent trigger pull difficult, generally resulting in lower accuracy.

That said, the trigger on my Colt AR and Arsenal AK both have their pluses and minuses.

The trigger in the Colt AR I assembled the lower on myself is pretty decent, much better than the triggers from previous Colt AR's I have owned and shot. Prior to this carbine, I owned a 6920, 6721, and 6601.

The trigger in the Arsenal SLR-101S that I own is very smooth and light, but it is also a double hook trigger. The single hook trigger in stamped Arsenal AK's is heavier and not as smooth.

At 100 yards, my Colt 6520/6720 that I built from a parts kit groups between 2-3 inches, groups generally being just under 3 inches. I use Federal M193/XM193 and, rarely, Winchester or Remington. I only use 5.56MM 55 grain FMJ cartridges, not .223 Remington, which is what the carbine was chambered for. Some groups are better than others, but accuracy has not been noticeably better or worse between those brands.

At 100 yards, my Arsenal SLR-101S groups around 3 inches. Some groups are better than others. I use Golden Tiger for most of my shooting. Wolf, Tula, and Winchester groups are not quite as good. There's not much price difference between Wolf, Tula, and Golden Tiger, so the cartridge choice was pretty simple for me. I haven't shot Golden Bear, Silver Bear, or Brown Bear so I couldn't tell you if groups would be better or worse with that ammo. The difference between the brands I've shot is only about .5 to .75 inches, in other words pretty insignificant.

Both carbines have lightweight profile barrels, which means there is some stringing of shots as the barrel heats up. Both rifles are first zeroed at 100 yards first (I normally zero my AR for 25 yards or less because it's a home defense weapon). I fire five shot groups, rhythm fire, for accuracy with 2-4 second pauses between shots. After the barrels heat up, groups are slightly better because the shot stringging happens as the barrels heat up. At this point, the horizontal dispersion between shots is greater than the vertical dispersion.

Both carbines were shot with iron sights, from the bench, with sandbags under the forearm. I grab the stock on both weapons with my support hand. I use 20 round magazines for the AR and 10 round magazines for the AK. Both are loaded with 10 rounds of ammunition for two five shot groups. The AK has the non-standard RPK type rear sight unit installed because it's adjustable for windage without having to use the tool to adjust the front sight. The AR has a GG&G flip-up rear sight that locks into position. The sight radius on both carbines is just about identical, perhaps slightly longer on the AR. I have optics (discontinued EoTech XPS 1 MOA dot only, no outer circle) on the AR, but using the optics only improves the group size by about .5 inches.

Most of my accuracy seems to be trigger control and an easy trigger to work with. The range I shoot at can have considerable cross winds toward the end of the day and it moves both carbines around. My best groups are right around or just over 2 inches. I'd say with near certainty that I'm the accuracy limiting factor, but at least I get consistent results with both carbines.

Most military carbines, all the ones I've ever shot in or out of the military, are not sniping rifles and shooters need to have realistic expectations about what's possible with issue carbines and issue ammunition. Better ammunition makes a difference, but not enough to justify the price, IMO.

Regarding quality:

I inspect every carbine I buy. I had to adjust the gas tube slightly on 1 Colt carbine I purchased with a shoe string, 6920 if I recall correctly. Every manufacturer, to include Colt and Arsenal, can produce lemons. I don't trust any manufacturer to produce an AK with all the components (front sight, gas block, trunnions, and barrel) lined up properly. I have to use a metal ruler or square and my eyes to make that determination.

I have passed on several stamped Arsenal AK's because the components were not lined up properly (canted front sight, gas block, or both). I purchased the SLR-101S after taking several minutes to check the critical components, feel the trigger, and watch how the fire control components interacted with each other with the dust cover removed. Some people may trust the manufacturer, but I like to check all those things myself.

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:38 PM   #23
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I found a bushmaster carbon 15 with red dot for about 800 bucks. Is that good or crap?
MSRP for a Carbon 15 on the Bushmaster website is $844.74. When things settle down, you might be able to score one on sale for $700-$750, if things ever settle down. Are there better AR's out there? Yeah, but the C15 will do pretty much everything you need it to. I had two, both were excellent shooters. The only reason I let them go is the large chunk of $$$ I got during the panic. I had no complaints about their performance.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:49 AM   #24
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MSRP for a Carbon 15 on the Bushmaster website is $844.74. When things settle down, you might be able to score one on sale for $700-$750, if things ever settle down. Are there better AR's out there? Yeah, but the C15 will do pretty much everything you need it to. I had two, both were excellent shooters. The only reason I let them go is the large chunk of $$$ I got during the panic. I had no complaints about their performance.
I've had a C-15 for several months and enjoy it highly. It hits a softball at 100yds with the included red dot. The internet "experts" will say it can't hit the broad side of a barn, but that's bull. Can you build a long barreled target killer that will beat the C-15? Sure, but you will spend a good bit more than 800 bucks. If you want to shoot an AR now, the Carbon 15 will do it, and it is good enough for government work...lol.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:19 AM   #25
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I would go with an AK, personally.

The setup of an AR feels alien, especially the charging handle.

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Old 04-12-2013, 02:27 AM   #26
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I would go with an AK, personally.

The setup of an AR feels alien, especially the charging handle.
You get used to it, I'm a bolt action guy and it doesn't bother me, I actually prefer it now. Just takes time to warm up to it.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:03 PM   #27
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I would choose either an AR or an AK-74 over the AK-47 for the grossly increased knock down power.

The 5.56X45 and 5.45X39 cartridges are far superior to the old pumpkin roller 7.62X39.

Also, IME with all three, the AK-74 and AR-15 are much more accurate than the AK-47. Just my $.02

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:16 PM   #28
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So three pages and people are still saying go ak or go ar. I say get both then its a win win situation

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:24 PM   #29
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So three pages and people are still saying go ak or go ar. I say get both then its a win win situation
It's all a matter of personal opinion, one is good for certain things and the other the opposite....... my service rifle was an AR... been thru hell with it, worked just fine, shot accurate..... Used AK-47's in Iraq and Afghanistan, put them thru hell, throw them around in sand, no oil, they still shoot, can be dirty as hell..... AR, full of sand like that will jam..... both can be accurate, depends on the shooter and the ammunition..... except full auto, then the AK ain't accurate for nothing, but since we are in America you don't have to worry about that anyway
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #30
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It's all a matter of personal opinion, one is good for certain things and the other the opposite....... my service rifle was an AR... been thru hell with it, worked just fine, shot accurate..... Used AK-47's in Iraq and Afghanistan, put them thru hell, throw them around in sand, no oil, they still shoot, can be dirty as hell..... AR, full of sand like that will jam..... both can be accurate, depends on the shooter and the ammunition..... except full auto, then the AK ain't accurate for nothing, but since we are in America you don't have to worry about that anyway

The military AK-74 is very controllable in full auto. But as you said, it's a moot point since they aren't available.
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